Pointless...

for Cinco's near miss.

CalculatedRisk wrote:

Just a note - I get angry emails every time I post anything slightly positive.

No kidding? I thought KP was all about the ...

Seriously, if all indicators went one way then the world wouldn't need you to help sort them out. Keep up the good work, CR!

CalculatedRisk wrote:

Just a note - I get angry emails every time I post anything slightly positive. Hmmm ...

What would happen if you posted nothing but negative news? We would probably try to elect you king of Dawgifornia!

"Just a note - I get angry emails every time I post anything slightly positive. Hmmm ... "

That's probably just Sebastian

Best to always shoot the messenger.......

gruntled wrote:

I think they're all making heat shields.

And drones! Won't somebody think of the drones?

ResistanceIsFeudal wrote:

And drones! Won't somebody think of the drones?

ac wrote:

28% of Americans know they have no emergency savings.
100% of Americans have no emergency savings.

In a country running 10% deficits there are no savings.

You seem utterly unable to learn. Your ideology completely blinds you.

Government deficits are the ONLY way the private sector can net save.

Private Sector Surplus or Net Saving = Government Deficit + Current Account Balance

http://neweconomicperspectives.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/untitled-32.png

TJ and The Bear wrote:

No kidding? I thought KP was all about the ...

You caught that too? All green shoots are good unless they are in Texas...

'mericans love surges. Except perhaps for power surges.

Good afternoon peeps!

Cinco-X wrote:

How would ending bailouts help the banks?

Well the issue is that anytime somebody new asks for a bailout that comes across to people as "Help we're f88ked over here!"

Spunkmeyer wrote:

as the number of countries requiring bailout increase, it lessens the stigma of doing so for the next one.

Just like foreclosures, walking away or short sales.
Funny how that works.

Texas Service sector survey out tomorrow morning ... i'll be F5ing away ...

RE wrote:

Government deficits are the ONLY way the private sector can net save.

And all those farmers who thought they were saving by stockpiling food for the winter... if only those poor fools knew!

Maybe we should look to Europe for a role model on fiscal responsibility.

Yes, really.

the Estonians cut back.
Public-sector wages got a 10 percent cut. They're raising the retirement age slowly from 61 to 65 over the next 14 years.
They reduced eligibility for government health benefits instead of broadening them. They're even working on cutting the income tax.

The result?
Incredible economic growth. 7.6%!

Read more: Europe Could Be Our Financial Role Model. And No, I Haven't Gone Crazy! - GerriWillis.com Blog - Fox Business

Estonia has about the same population as the Hartford metro area.

merchants of fear wrote:

Government Deficit +

Do you ever worry about compound interest on this govt. debt and the speculative attacks which are making the rounds... focusing on Europe right now...

Are you aware that there is no country in modern times that got out of its economic quagmire using austerity?

The only country up for debate is Denmark in 1983-1984 and Ireland a little later. However, as shown in the article, even these examples have been debunked.

Expansionary fiscal contraction - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So where are your examples of success?

It would also be interesting to learn what government-managed services Estonia and Switzerland provide to all of their citizens.

ah, more junkie logic.

whoever beat a mean hangover with sobreity?

YouTube - Steely Dan - Pretzel Logic

the only answer is MOAR PUBLIK DET.

"Economic theory tells us that it is precisely the fickle nature of confidence, including its dependence on the public's expectation of future events, which makes it so difficult to predict the timing of debt crises. High debt levels lead, in many mathematical economics models, to "multiple equilibria" in which the debt level might be sustained – or might not be. Economists do not have a terribly good idea of what kinds of events shift confidence and of how to concretely assess confidence vulnerability. What one does see, again and again, in the history of financial crises is that when an accident is waiting to happen, it eventually does. When countries become too deeply indebted, they are headed for trouble. When debt-fueled asset price explosions seem too good to be true, they probably are. But the exact timing can be very difficult to guess, and a crisis that seems imminent can sometimes take years to ignite."

– From This Time Is Different, by Carmen Reinhart and Ken Rogoff

Lurking Lawyer wrote:

Estonia has about the same population as the Hartford metro area.

And
Estonia is producing ca 75% of its consumed electricity.[114] Over 85% of it generated with locally mined oil shale

ac wrote:

And all those farmers who thought they were saving by stockpiling food for the winter... if only those poor fools knew!

Obviously net savings apply to the financial/dollar economy only.

However, the comment you responded to was:

Most Americans don't have nearly enough money stashed away for emergencies and more than one-in-four don't even have a single penny saved.

It might be tough for J6P to stockpile food and commodity markets are quite unpredictable.

And a speculative attack on the US Treasury ends how?

Speculative attacks pick the weaker nations so Southern Europe now... then others maybe as the whole global economy struggles when the risk transfers fail one way or another... and the cascade picks up steam... as the risk becomes more systemic... the Dollar is no safe haven in the long run... if this really gets going... so I know....more QE and we can extend and pretend some more... and ward off the Big speculators...

I am a retired medical doctor and worked in the LA area in 2004. I mentioned to some colleagues that I thought the housing market there was going to collapse and that all the Washington Mutual Savings branches, which were on practically every major street corner, would disappear. Needless to say, I was considered a little crazy which is true. One of my kids who works for a hedge fund sent me this speech today by Dr Michael Burry, a medical doctor who went into economics, made a fortune shorting the stock and housing markets, and was the commencement speaker at UCLA this year. Referring to Wall Street and the Fed, he states that their "ignorance was willful", that they chose "long term risk for short term profits", and never considered the medical oath, "Do no harm".
Dr. Michael "The Big Short" Burry's "Brutal Hangover Is Inevitable" State-Of-The-World UCLA Commencement Speech | ZeroHedge 

Estonia is running on FDI in a country of 1.3 million... good luck with that.

black dog wrote:

Texas Service sector survey out tomorrow morning ... i'll be F5ing away ...

http://pytnet.org/shows/WizardofOz10/Dramaturgy/images/tornado_farmhouse.jpg

Has woken up yet today?

Maria B is on mp's, CitizenA, and your side as she just said on CNBC: "Get it done."

t r orwell wrote:

Referring to Wall Street and the Fed, he states that their "ignorance was willful", that they chose "long term risk for short term profits", and never considered the medical oath, "Do no harm".

He offers good advice to Young people starting out.

Don't underestimate the lulling and fraudulent concealment of insolvencies to extend & pretend this gigantic bubble racket.

I'll take extend and pretend over Rapture and Armageddon any day thank you.

Cinco-X wrote:

Pointless...

But not Poicless.

Princeton’s Blinder Says Fed Has Weak Weapons for Growth - Bloomberg

Blinder said he agreed with Lacker’s assessment that the program will provide little boost to growth yet said the central bank should still do what it can to help.

A more effective program, he said, would be to provide $400 billion to $500 billion of fiscal stimulus including infrastructure and jobs programs. Republicans are unlikely to report such programs, he said.

shill wrote:

I'll take extend and pretend over Rapture and Armageddon any day thank you.

And that is what we will get, until THEY can't.

josap wrote:

Spain finds $1T in couch cushions.

They just need to check the - what the heck was it, the ginaormic slush fund one of the SIFI's had - the something or other vault?

And that is what we will get, until THEY can't.

Date, time...Year, anyone? I want to make sure I have enough Toilet paper for trade and such.

Student-loan deal in sight as deadline looms - Political Watch - MarketWatch

:Microwave_Frozen_Burrito:

Ken?

I'm thinking roughly 1.5 trillion a year for "defense" is just a tad bit much. We have lots of things that need doing in this country. Our infrastructure is a freaking disaster and yet, we do nothing to fix it. Certainly we could find something better to do with our money than kill people and blow shit up.

Comrade Kristina,

We can't improve OUR infrastructure until we're done destroying everyone else's.

merchants of fear wrote:

f we are going to build infrastructure in Afghanistan with govt. money, why not spend the money in the U.S. to improve infrastructure?

because in the 'stan, you don't really have to build any infrastructure, pure skim

The Austerity crowd loves Estonia because it was a communist country that embraced the free market.

On the flip side, how come no one is pointing to the most successful economic story in Europe...Norway? Economic trends for Norway and foreign countries

Oh, wait...they're socialist.

They prefer to be called Commies, actually.

Comrade Kristina wrote:
>

Hmmm, slow down in supply?

when the resident purveyor of comments about a slow down of supply then it is time to

Comrade Kristina wrote:

Certainly we could find something better to do with our money than kill people and blow shit up.

Defense Department spending -- which understates total defense costs, of course -- still only runs about 1/5th of the overall budget.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:U.S.Federal_Spending-_FY_2011.png

no doubt we can multiply that cost yet a few more times if the blasted thing ever gets built

TJ and The Bear wrote:

Defense Department spending -- which understates total defense costs, of course -- still only runs about 1/5th of the overall budget.

JFK spent 35%.

no today for

merchants of fear wrote:

If we are going to build infrastructure in Afghanistan with govt. money, why not spend the money in the U.S. to improve infrastructure?

I'm all for it. I opposed the Afghanistan adventure from the start.

But that's not going to be enough. $60 billion at $5.3 billion a month just won't cut it even if it could be done on relatively short notice.

Euro back at 1.25

isn't listening to me.

I said go,not go away.

Somebody just linked something that it was more like 50% of the budget if you include all the defense spending and defense related categories and categories that don't sound like defense but are defense...

invisible.

Nobody cares but here anyway.

edit
reply

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhgggghhhhhhhhh.;

The Equation

Run for the hills!! Oops, well, I'm already on the 2nd floor. It will have to do.

Defense Department spending -- which understates total defense costs, of course -- still only runs about 1/5th of the overall budget.

It understates it by a lot. When you include the VA, the Department of Energy, the NSA, supplemental war spending, and the pro rata share of debt payments, the true amount is more than double.

CalculatedRisk wrote:

But I don't get angry at the data - it is just data.

And activity is just activity.

The market bounced back in late trading to finish off the lows of the day. Traders found buying opportunities as evil short traders site the end of the world.

Risk transfers are just risk transfers...

Well we close below the 12,504 target 12,502..we may lose another 150 pts from here. Key word May markets are trading on rumor so anything can happen.

How about all of the black hole programs?

Also, whining the word "freeeeedom" over and over is not an argument. I had this happen to me Friday night. But what about our "freeeeedom". We aren't free is my standard answer. Unless being free to work yourself to death for next to nothing to enrich some already rich bastard is the new definition of "freedom".

merchants of fear wrote:

Somebody just linked something that it was more like 50% of the budget if you include all the defense spending and defense related categories and categories that don't sound like defense but are defense...

Military budget of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

For all "defense related" expenditures... Total Spending $1.030–$1.415 trillion

we may lose another 150 pts from here.

gosh, i was present when slumdog made his infamous call ...

Cinco-X wrote:

Interstate Highway System and DARPA-net (aka the internet) were definitely on the defense budget but have dramatically benefited the country as a whole...

Ummm no. the IHS was entirely self funded.

josap wrote:

Spain finds $1T in couch cushions.

And several thousand lost churros.

gosh, i was present when slumdog made his infamous call ...

Oh wait my bad...The world is going to end tomorrow and only the true 1% that we all work for will survive and they will take all your toilet paper from under your bed.

And the grocery stores will be empty and dogs and cats WILL BE sleeping together...hope this helps.

black dog wrote:

new school - CIA running afghan opium trade to fund black budgets

Well, at least we're not selling arms to Iran...

Well, it's ok then, since the taxpayers aren't paying!

Rob Dawg wrote:

JFK spent 35%.

The President was making the budget in those days?

Cinco-X wrote:

he increased it dramatically

The President was making the budget in those days?

Gee, weren't there a lot of Chinese involved in building the Pacific end of the railroads?

Where are some good Chinese laborers when you need them?

black dog wrote:

new school - CIA running afghan opium trade to fund black budgets

That's old school.

CIA and Contras cocaine trafficking in the US - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You must see the Sorkin thing Kristina. You'd rise up and cheer.

Blackhalo wrote:

Don't forget the interest on all that past DoD spending....

Read the link -- it's in there.

I was gonna say that whole scenario sounded vaguely familiar and was long before the Stan.

HBO.

dreamer wrote:

Something to think about, when it comes to tax time to realize half of it goes to "defense".

And yet, even stretching "defense related" to extremes, it's still less than entitlements (which was my original point).

Oh wait my bad...The world is going to end tomorrow and only the true 1% that we all work for will survive and they will take all your toilet paper from under your bed.
And the grocery stores will be empty and dogs and cats WILL BE sleeping together...hope this helps.

The central banks have to make things look 'normal'... ya know...

Comrade Kristina wrote:

Unless being free to work yourself to death for next to nothing to enrich some already rich bastard is the new definition of "freedom"

It is, we do, and we are. That's what happens when you 'monetize' everything. But hey, at least we get kickass toys, a nice house and reality teevee.

"China can build one from one end of the country to another for what it will cost California to build from one end of an empty county to another. "

When you strip away worker safety requirements, zero cost when expropriating the land, no safety over-view etc.. things tend to go faster.

I've always wondered why the libertarians gloss over this part of the Asian "free-market" miracle.

Because they are, you know, INSOLVENT.

Hatzius: Fed to ease on July 4th.

(Darn, am I too late?)

Because they are, you know, INSOLVENT.

No that would the the govt's and consumers around the world...

It doesn't fit their Paradigm

We are all insolvent now.

All your insolvents are belong to us.

Any flooding?

TJ and The Bear wrote:

And yet, even stretching "defense related" to extremes, it's still less than entitlements (which was my original point).

Entitlements flow from workers to workers with little direct skim (other than the Medicare skim, but that is a problem with the private health sector's rents in general)

National Defense Consumption Expenditures & Gross Investment (FDEFX) - FRED - St. Louis Fed

Defense spending is largely the equivalent of lighting $800B/yr afire.

Worse, since this act of waste involves the consumption of copious amounts of natural resources, raising their prices the real wealth-creating economy has to pay.

Comrade Kristina wrote:

Yeah, more and more I'd just as soon pass on all that. I want to shake people until they wake up out of their zombie trances.

For most, it will be an end of life realization.

Yeah, we've had some minor flooding but nothing too bad. Of course another couple days of this and it could be a problem. Poor Tampa, they are just soaked.

1 currency now -yogi wrote:

Rob Dawg wrote:

JFK spent 35%.

The President was making the budget in those days?

The Executive Branch spends the money authorized by the Legislative Branch. How did you ever pass the bar?

Good old Ayn, she hated gubmint cheese until she needed it to pay her doctor bills...go figure. Just another douche bag hypocrite.

lawyerliz wrote:

I have a soon to be big enough watermelon, and a lot of water for it to soak up.

Needs wodka, keptin!

Comrade Troyski wrote:

Defense spending is largely the equivalent of lighting $800B/yr afire.

You make it sound like there's nobody employed in defense whatsoever. Regardless, you're still missing the point. You can't fix the budget entirely through defense, and it's not the part of the budget that's been growing the fastest in recent years.

lawyerliz wrote:

Any flooding?

There was a little leak at the hose fitting under the avocado tree that got a little damp. Other than that no rain until September.
72°/58° dayafterdayafterday....

poic wrote:

When you strip away worker safety requirements, zero cost when expropriating the land, no safety over-view etc.. things tend to go faster.

And the poic comes through Again.

Here is Obama's budget plan....good luck reading.

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lx953nHjPh1qd9a66o1_500.jpg

Wow, that's some downpour. I hate when it rains that hard here. Let's hope it doesn't last long or you'll need an ark.

merchants of fear wrote:

Someone on CNBC just said the banks had a lot of cash so they could handle clawbacks.

So THAT'S where my cash went!

Run liz, get away from the TARP there's s under it.

So JFK got exactly what he requested?

How did you ever pass the third grade?

CalculatedRisk wrote:

The "Surges" is from the Dallas Fed

That's why using strike is great for editorial clarity ..

Example # 1: The "Surges" is from the Dallas Fed, or one can use the word udder bullshit :moo:

YESSSSSSSS!!!! DFIGHT TIME!!

1 currency now -yogi wrote:

So JFK got exactly what he requested?

How did you ever pass the third grade?

You nasty motherfucker. All I said was that JFK spent 35% of the federal budget on defense. You took a cheap shot at me implying that I didn't know how the federal budget process worked. Take you lumps for being an asshole and STFU.

Rob Dawg wrote:

We cannot afford to improve or infrastructure.

Which type of infrastructure? City of Atlanta, GA : Municipal Option Sales Tax (MOST)

Here's Simon Johnson's view on what will happen as the Euro collapses one nation at a time:

U.S. Banks Aren’t Nearly Ready for Coming European Crisis - Bloomberg 

Here's a sample worth thinking about:

"As a warm-up, consider first a simple contract. Let’s say you have lent 1 million euros to a German bank, payable three months from now. If the euro suddenly ceases to exist and all countries revert to their original currencies, then you would probably receive payment in deutsche marks. You might be fine with this -- and congratulate yourself on not lending to an Italian bank, which is now paying off in lira.

But what would the exchange rate be between new deutsche marks and euros? How would this affect the purchasing power of the loan repayment? More worrisome, what if Germany has gone back on the deutsche mark but the euro still exists -- issued by more inflation-inclined countries? Presumably you would be offered payment in the rapidly depreciating euro. If you contested such a repayment, the litigation could drag on for years.

What if you lent to that German bank not in Frankfurt but in London? Would it matter if you lent to a branch (part of the parent) or a subsidiary (more clearly a British legal entity)? How would the British courts assess your claim to be repaid in relatively appreciated deutsche marks, rather than ever-less- appealing euros? With the euro depreciating further, should you wait to see what the courts decide? Or should you settle quickly in hope of recovering half of what you originally expected?

What if you lent to the German bank in New York, but the transaction was run through an offshore subsidiary, for example in the Cayman Islands? Global banks are extremely complex in terms of the legal entities that overlap with business units. Do you really know which legal jurisdiction would cover all aspects of your transaction in the currency formerly known as the euro? "

Comrade Troyski wrote:

And as for defense sector jobs, we'd get better ROI just paying 5M people $50,000/yr to play xbox all day.

We will soon enough... with the slight difference that the enemies killed in the game are also dead IRL.

No lightning, some wind.

Actually, it's heavy rain again.

Gridlock wrote:

On the flip side, how come no one is pointing to the most successful economic story in Europe...Norway?

This left-libertarian hearts Norway. I'd move there if they weren't so latidunally-challenged, plus their moon-man language looks harder than Japanese.

trouble in paradise though:

Statoil: Strike to cost $19M a day in lost revenue - MarketWatch

Testosterone alert.

Going downstairs to cook some sphaghetti.

Hope power doesn't go out.

Yeah, it's not an easy language to learn but it might be worth it to get away from these nuts here.

we need :olympic scorecards: that we can hold up

lawyerliz wrote:

Testosterone alert.
Going downstairs to cook some sphaghetti.
Hope power doesn't go out.

Good luck! Stay safe...

It will be fun to watch, for awhile. Until we get hungry and stuff.

That's because we quite simply do NOT care about people at all. Profit is the only thing that matters. CK

Individuals care. Anonymous mobs don't. Guess which your government is....

Former Idealist wrote:

Individuals care. Anonymous mobs don't. Guess which your government is....

My government is a democratic republic. As long as we can keep it, as the man allegedly said.

Anonymous mobs...hmmmm. You mean like JP Morgan and GE and Fox News and Goldman Sachs...Our government is completely captured by multinational business interests. So no, they care about nothing but the profits for their keepers. I assume that is what you meant?

I keep thinking about how quickly things "flipped" in September/October 2008.

but how you cover $1.4T with $40B is beyond me.

W/O tax cuts

my money on extension for everyone

but some Ds are pushing for raising them on the "rich" ... @ $250K level some $800+ billion over 10 years ... @ $1 million about half that.

either case - :dropinbucket:

Anonymous mobs...hmmmm. You mean like JP Morgan and GE and Fox News and Goldman Sachs...Our government is completely captured by multinational business interests. So no, they care about nothing but the profits for their keepers. I assume that is what you meant? CK

yep

What say we adopt JFKs last budget adjusted for inflation/population/whatever just keeping the percent of GDP and percent of Federal budget by department the same?

Oooops, Dept of Education. There's a $94 billion savings right there.

Executive Order--Russian Highly Enriched Uranium | The White House

I, BARACK OBAMA,... find that the risk of nuclear proliferation created by the accumulation of a large volume of weapons-usable fissile material in the territory of the Russian Federation continues to constitute an unusual and extraordinary threat to the national security and foreign policy of the United States, and hereby declare a national emergency to deal with that threat. I hereby order:
...
Sec. 2. Government of the Russian Federation assets directly related to the implementation of the HEU Agreements currently may be subject to attachment, judgment, decree, lien, execution, garnishment, or other judicial process

Also,
EU Confirms Full Iran Oil Embargo to Start Sunday - WSJ.com

I welcome the sequesters, LOL.

MIC will be sending out mass layoff notices ... right before the election ... dem boyz know how to play cards

RATM wrote:

EU Confirms Full Iran Oil Embargo to Start Sunday - WSJ.com

PressTV - China says oil imports from Iran fair, reasonable

Comrade Kristina wrote:

Now we would call them "suckers".

Or muppets.

Asian gold bugs eye price weakness, c.bank buying
| Reuters

Sure there is weakness, but they are buying....Just tossing this out there for a swim.

I remember visiting Beijing back in 2005. I visited and stayed in the areas that foreigners don't visit very often.

Buildings being built 24/x with blow-torching going on at midnight.
I recall seeing a migrant worker being pulled out of a super-market (most likely to have his ass kicked) for cutting in line at the roast-duck line.
The migrant workers get pushed into the crappy areas to live. If they can afford a place to live.
They can't send their children to school because you need a permit to live in Beijing (as well as most major cities in China). Of course you can purchase that if you have enough money.

And that's Beijing, which is WAY,WAY better than the 2nd or 3rd tier cities.

That's the under-belly of the "libertarian free-market" miracle in Asia.

Also,
EU Confirms Full Iran Oil Embargo to Start Sunday - WSJ.com

Good timing. Yeah they are trying to make things worse.

Paradigm Lost wrote:

Here's Simon Johnson's view on what will happen as the Euro collapses one nation at a time:

Thanks for putting this up. I for one do not mind the length of such posts. I tend to focus on the micro or even nano level of my neighborhood and my personal experiences by tending my Voltarian garden and reporting on how things seem to be going. A collapse of the euro will never be orderly. Johnson lays out a few problems. I tried to indicate a few more in my comments on printing in Greece and the euronotes that bear different serial number codes depending on the country that issued them. Imagine trying to redeem Greek euronotes from Greece with a new drachma. My cash holdings have probably 10 different euronote issuers in them. This is just the tip of the iceberg.

Should Greece somehow be induced or forced to leave the euro, I think all hell will break loose as the dominoes fall. There is no mechanism for dealing with what will happen if countries are forced out of the euro or induced to leave. One likely consequence will be that those countries will introduce currency controls, and that will be the end of those countries adherence to the EU treaties. Please correct me anyone who knows more than I do about these mechanisms and many of you follks must, but I ad this simply because I have not seen it in the comments, but then I am seven time zones + away from many of you and more for some.

Rob Dawg wrote:

Oooops, Dept of Education. There's a $94 billion savings right there.

education. who needs it.

The majority of funding went to just three programs: Elementary and Secondary Education Act Title I Grants to Local Education Agencies, the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act (IDEA) State Grants, and the Pell Grant program for college students. Collectively these three programs received $48.9 billion in fiscal year 2011.

t r orwell wrote:

and was the commencement speaker at UCLA this year.

He was the commencement speaker at the ECONOMICS department. When I was there it was full-speed Supply-Side craziness. Infinite machines like "hamburger replaces a steak because there are infinte choices." Economics was on full-speed physics mathmatifaction in an effort to lose the "social science" stigma too.

What I remember most clearly was how beholden these guys were to the Fed. It was the ultimate signal that you "made it" at Economics. Perhaps a distant second was working for a presidential campaign. Yet another signal I had made the wrong choice.

poic wrote:

And that's Beijing, which is WAY,WAY better than the 2nd or 3rd tier cities.

That's the under-belly of the "libertarian free-market" miracle in Asia.

I sure as heck don't want to buy locally manufacturer galvanized roofing nails. Let them bear the environmental and health burden of my cheap construction materials.

The great thing about the Asian Capitalism Miracle is it meets everyone's needs.

The left can point to the benefits of state capitalism.
The libertarians/right can point to the benefits of reduced regulation.

Paradigm Lost wrote:

"As a warm-up, consider first a simple contract. Let’s say you have lent 1 million euros to a German bank, payable three months from now.

The transition from a sovereign currency to the Euro had to go through the same thing. Why would going back be any different?

The why this is the new bogeyman is a transition out of the Euro means, haircuts for the lenders. More than one haircut if the sovereign is creative.

Rob Dawg wrote:

Let them bear the environmental and health burden of my cheap construction materials.

Republicans, eagerly supporting the race to the bottom since 1880.

poic wrote:

GMAFB I read the dreck on this board and others every day. How we just need to get rid of worker rights, environmental regulation and the rest of the garbage. Then we can get back to what made us great as a country.

You beat those strawmen to death, Poic.l

"Financial universe will hit full stop. "

Yep. A blowout of mega proportions. It's ballooning bigger and bigger. Some HCNers have been pointing it out. We really don't know what's lurking in the dark matter.

Rob Dawg wrote:

Big boy table. Big boy rules. China is making a very serious miscalculation.

LBJ's whiz kids were working that page of the playbook in the mid-1960s too.

Yet it was us evacuating our embassies in 1975, not them.

Comrade Troyski wrote:

any (right-) libertarian. China is exactly what libertarians want, those with the gold making the rules, with approximately zero democratic institutional power to restrict that.

Bullshit. The most prominent proponent of China's way of doing things is Tom Fucking Friedman. I can't think one single libertarian that admires China.

JP wrote:

dirty_juheesus wrote:
Why would going back be any different?
The currencies were stable when the conversions-to-euros was fixed.

Time is smoothing over the instabilities for you. The exchange rates will be negotiated. This is not new.

Comrade Troyski wrote:

$40B/yr cuts every year

Ah, cumulative -- okay, now I understand. You'll never get down to $200B; 3% of GDP is pretty much the historical low. The rest will have to come from elsewhere.

Yancey Ward wrote:

Bullshit. The most prominent proponent of China's way of doing things is Tom Fucking Friedman. I can't think one single libertarian that admires China.

Friedman is a libertarian.

Comrade Troyski wrote:

LBJ's whiz kids were working that page of the playbook in the mid-1960s too.
Yet it was us evacuating our embassies in 1975, not them.

If we were just smarter, more intelligent and more educated, we wouldn't need ethics or honesty. We could just outwit the other team and do whatever we wanted.

Rob Dawg wrote:

And when the inflations came the lesson was learned. Burned into their brains actually.

Yes, RD. I recall the guns and butter speech. I was in 8th grade in a small village that was very working class with ag and some mills. Several of our teachers explained the metaphor to us, and none of them presented it a a fallacy. It took me another five yrs and well into the campaign in VietNam to realize the disconnect.

"Bullshit. The most prominent proponent of China's way of doing things is Tom Fucking Friedman. I can't think one single libertarian that admires China. "

I can think of many faux libertarians who admire China.

Comrade Troyski wrote:

Rob Dawg wrote:

Aka rewarding the worst performing.

chicken meet egg.

At least in California the reverse is the norm. Spending inverse to outcomes. In 1978 California was among the top 5 in education. Exactly one K-12 education cycle later California was in the bottom 5. What happened in 1978? And to stop the first 50 replies; it was not Prop 13. Public school funding went up that year, way up.

"Then they aren't libertarians, are they? "

When the rubber meets the road very, very few people are true to their principles.

That's why I use the term libertarian rather than Libertarian.
I also differentiate socialists and Socialists the same way.
And capitalists and Capitalists.

Like I said, watch what happens to people during a big layoff at a company.

Hmmm Anarchists and anarchists...