Report: HARP 2 Refinancing activity increases

Rank	Name	Points
#1	Rajesh	4,668
#2	GDD9000	3,058
#3	RE	3,054
#4	HomeGnome	2,706
#5	NGBROI	2,300
#6	Bubblisimo Gerkinov	2,280
#7	JP	1,766
#8	Nanoo-Nanoo	1,756
#9	Blackhalo	1,708
#10	Rob Dawg	1,508

joeblo wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 8:45 am

rosethorn wrote:

Corporate profits compared to compensation paid to employees
Easy to guess what the chart looks like...

Actually, since the two numbers on are completely different scales it's hard to tell that corporate profits have grown significantly faster.
from 1998-2011:
Employee Income +70%
Corporate Profits +110%

and ??

joeblo wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 8:51 am

But is "getting out of negative equity" good for the borrowers, if it takes until 2018 and they can't move?
I suppose it depends on it being a non-recourse state.... and whether they could have paid of their second.

I like the idea of lowering their interest rates while making sure they have skin in it, but I'm not sure it's a guaranteed winner.
What if one of them gets sick or loses their job? Now their mortgage is certainly recourse.

energyecon wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 8:49 am (in reply to...)

Take that look at the split back another 20 years or so...

Agronox wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 8:49 am

Hmm. They'd save $171k over the life of the loan with the re-fi, but how much would they have saved by strategic default?

Maybe they really like the house.

GDD9000 wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 8:50 am

Im sure a default would cover the moving costs. There are a lot of nice houses out there to like.

Former Idealist wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 8:51 am

They don't plan on living there for 20 years, just a

km4 wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 8:51 am

Guest Post: By Incentivizing Debt, We've Guaranteed Debt-Serfdom and Stagnation | ZeroHedge

Incentivize debt, and you end up relying on debt as a sustitute for productivity and income. Increase debt, and there's not enough income left for productive investments that might boost income. Incentivize debt via making interest tax deductible, and you create a self-reinforcing feedback of a rising share of declining income being devoted to interest payments. With demand and borrowing both suppressed by debt-serfdom, demand for housing, goods and services declines. Borrowing more to consume simply speeds the cycle of rising interest and falling net incomes.

Incentivize debt and you create multiple overlapping death spirals. We are seeing the death-spirals play out in a fractal manner, from households to nations to entire regions. High debt levels lead to high interest payments which lead to low investment and savings rates which lead to lower productivity which leads to stagnation of income, consumption and investment: in other words, a death spiral.

Nice summary but nonetheless we'll just see more and from both parties and MSM

glimmerman wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 8:52 am

Oliver = debt slave

poic wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 8:55 am

CalculatedRisk wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 8:56 am (in reply to...)

joeblo, these people have apparently been paying their mortgage for 9 years - and it is very unlikely that they'd default (true for most people with negative equity). So getting out of negative is better for them.

Lenders usually only pursue recourse on borrowers they think have assets. If they can't pay because of sickness or a lost job, I doubt the lenders would pursue them.

Doc Holiday wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 8:57 am (in reply to...)

km4 wrote:

Guest Post: By Incentivizing Debt

Right now, investors’ preference for safety makes financing additional government debt abnormally cheap... Given the need to mobilize idle resources in the short run in order to maintain productive potential in the long run, a larger national debt would be, as Alexander Hamilton, the first US treasury secretary, put it, a national blessing. :holy_water:

Doc Holiday wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 9:01 am

Re: "if the house value stays at $230,000"

How is anyone doing appraisals these days? Seems like this would sort of be a moving target not worth shooting at:

km4 wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 9:02 am (in reply to...)

Borrow $1.5 trillion every year to make sure the swag is fully funded and the restive constituencies are quieted for another election cycle.

energyecon wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 9:03 am (in reply to...)

km4 wrote:

Borrow $1.5 trillion every year to make sure the swag is fully funded and the restive constituencies are quieted for another election cycle.

Didn't you get the memo? "Do it for the children!"

josap wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 9:03 am (in reply to...)

CalculatedRisk wrote:

If they can't pay because of sickness or a lost job, I doubt the lenders would pursue them.

They'll wait ten years.
They'll sell the debt to a collection agency.

Somewhere along the line J6P will pay.

Lurking Lawyer wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 9:04 am

The Olivers don't seem very smart. Short sell the sucker, take the exemption from cancellation of indebtedness income tax liability, and move on.

sm_landlord wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 9:07 am (in reply to...)

km4 wrote:

Borrow $1.5 trillion every year to make sure the swag is fully funded and the restive constituencies are quieted for another election cycle.

We're all Dick Cheney now?

black dog wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 9:09 am

the "low-hanging fruit lenders have been willing" to refinance.

going forward?

Doc Holiday wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 9:14 am

Maybe we just need more robo loans? Seattle Mortgage Tips & Blog - Sammamish Mortgage Blog

The lender will order a VA appraisal that estimates the market value of the property on the date of inspection. If the lender is authorized by VA to do automatic processing, upon receipt of the VA or LAPP appraised value determination, the loan can be approved and closed without waiting for VA’s review of the credit application ..

Also see: How to Apply for Nonsupervised Automatic Authority - Loan Guaranty Home Loan Program

rosethorn wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 9:10 am

IMF: Japan must raise sales tax to show fiscal commitment
| Reuters

The IMF is bugging Japan

"The International Monetary Fund urged the Japanese government on Tuesday to raise the country's sales tax and reform its welfare system to demonstrate a commitment to fiscal reform."

Cinco-X wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 9:11 am

Apple just declared war on these products - Business Insider

And to think folks thought MSFT was the evil empire....

Duke of Con Dao wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 9:13 am

I know a guy who lost his house in January. Asked him if he did any of the programs like
HAMP, etc. Said he did.
Initially went to his bank to ask for help but they said until he missed a series of payments
there was nothing they could do...
He said the paper work was crazy. seemed like every Qtr they asked for more stuff...
... ended badly...

Agronox wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 9:14 am

Great idea IMF.

"We know that your country risks sliding into deflation caused by inadequate demand. Can you please enact "reforms" that will help sap demand? We are idiots."

black dog wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 9:15 am

He said the paper work was crazy. seemed like every Qtr they asked for more stuff...

lenders scared loans put back to them if they go bad (if they didn't cross every T)?

low hanging fruit ... the only fruit?

glimmerman wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 9:15 am (in reply to...)

Lurking Lawyer wrote:

The Olivers don't seem very smart. Short sell the sucker, take the exemption from cancellation of indebtedness income tax liability, and move on.

No kidding, that is what everyone is doing in Vegas.

Eric wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 9:18 am (in reply to...)

Duke of Con Dao wrote:

I know a guy who lost his house in January

First I might actually believe.....

black dog wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 9:20 am

Didn't you get the memo? "Do it for the children!"

grain costs money ...

..... need to be grain fed until they're old enough to be hooked to the student loan IV ...

Doc Holiday wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 9:22 am

redacted ... too weird...

Cinco-X wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 9:22 am

A Modern Fairy Tale Of Three Economic Wizards - Business Insider

Philosophical Beliefs

Keynesian wizards believe governments can spend their way to economic health and although fiscal deficits may matter at some point in time, they never matter now, in practice.

Monetarist wizards believe money will cure any and every problem if enough is dropped from helicopters and interest rates held low.

Austrian wizards believe that economic problems are created by unsound money, haphazard loans, excessive debts, and government manipulations.

Keynesian and Monetarist wizards believe in the voodoo principle "the problem is the solution if only you do more of it". The former relies primarily on fiscal voodoo, the latter relies primarily on monetary voodoo.

Austrian wizards do not believe "the problem is the solution", no matter how many times it is repeated.

Source....

RayOnTheFarm wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 9:22 am (in reply to...)

Cinco-X wrote:

And to think folks thought MSFT was the evil empire....

who said the world was limited to one evil empire ?

Cinco-X wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 9:23 am (in reply to...)

black dog wrote:

..... need to be grain fed until they're old enough to be hooked to the student loan IV ...

Don't you worry about the gluten?

JP wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 9:24 am (in reply to...)

Eric wrote:

First I might actually believe.....

Not me. I'll bet this means the foreclosure moratorium shut down all foreclosures from the McDonalds to Southeast Asia and everything in between.

glimmerman wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 9:26 am (in reply to...)

commenting problems

PastTense wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 9:26 am (in reply to...)

km4 wrote:

Borrow $1.5 trillion every year to make sure the swag is fully funded and the restive constituencies are quieted for another election cycle.

But some of us expect this $1.5 trillion to massively increase:
1. Bond buyers no longer trusting the federal government to repay its debts so interest rates explode--as is happening in many European countries.
2. Massive bank bailouts
3. Baby boomer retirement--big increase in Social Security payments and similar costs
4. Explosion in health care costs
5. More tax cuts (particularly for the rich (to get the country moving))
6. Wars (Iran a good possibility, particularly if the Republicans win)
7. Peak oil
8. More natural disasters (a result of climate change).

mp wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 9:27 am

Austrian wizards do not believe "the problem is the solution", no matter how many times it is repeated.

Fallacy of composition.

Failure to recognize that private sector debt is not the same as public sector debt.

zephyrum wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 9:28 am (in reply to...)

Cinco-X wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 9:11 am

Apple just declared war on these products - Business Insider

And to think folks thought MSFT was the evil empire....

I did business with both Apple and Microsoft for many, many years. If Microsoft made a run at you it was in public and full view--they might be bullies but were rarely liars. Apple did their dirty business secretly, behind the scenes--very Machiavellian. Equally bullies but often duplicitous too. If I was choosing a business partner today it would be MSFT all the way.

Lobbyist Ben Dover wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 9:29 am

Gluten? isn't that the glue on postage stamps? Government is poisoning old people!

Govt. Cheese wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 9:30 am (in reply to...)

PastTense wrote:

Bond buyers no longer trusting the federal government to repay its debts so interest rates explode--as is happening in many European countries.

Massive bank bailouts

Baby boomer retirement--big increase in Social Security payments and similar costs

Explosion in health care costs

More tax cuts (particularly for the rich (to get the country moving))

Wars (Iran a good possibility, particularly if the Republicans win)

Peak oil

More natural disasters (a result of climate change).

It's built into the market. Next?

Cinco-X wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 9:31 am (in reply to...)

Lobbyist Ben Dover wrote:

Gluten? isn't that the glue on postage stamps? Government is poisoning old people!

Cinco-X wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 9:33 am (in reply to...)

mp wrote:

Fallacy of composition.
Failure to recognize that private sector debt is not the same as public sector debt.

Perhaps you'll comment on this then...

To fight this recession the Fed needs…soaring household spending to offset moribund business investment. [So] Alan Greenspan needs to create a housing bubble to replace the Nasdaq bubble.

km4 wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 9:34 am (in reply to...)

PastTense good 8 points but don't tell the rubes

Rob Dawg wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 9:35 am (in reply to...)

PastTense wrote:

More natural disasters (a result of climate change).

No one credible on either side says this.

sm_landlord wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 9:35 am

Has everyone read this by now?

Myth of Perpetual Growth is killing America - Paul B. Farrell - MarketWatch

Wow - no red hat?

mp wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 9:36 am

Perhaps you'll comment on this then...

Krugman got it exactly right because that's precisely what Greenspan did.

poic wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 9:36 am

Speaking of gluten I'm going out to get a big ass glutinous donut and a coffee.

energyecon wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 9:37 am (in reply to...)

That would make a good rapper handle: BAG-D and Cuppa-C!

Cinco-X wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 9:41 am (in reply to...)

mp wrote:

Krugman got it exactly right [Alan Greenspan needs to create a housing bubble to replace the Nasdaq bubble.] because that's precisely what Greenspan did.

Anybody else?

BTW, I saw "Prometheus" this weekend...fantastic cinematography, but otherwise average presentation. The pacing just didn't seem right...it almost seemed to be a collage of clichés from other Aliens movies....

ResistanceIsFeudal wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 9:39 am (in reply to...)

energyecon wrote:

That would make a good rapper handle: BAG-D and Cuppa-C!

All you need to add is a felony charge for a violent crime, and you're well on the way to superstardom!

mp wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 9:40 am

You are ignoring the historical context of Krugman's remark, just as the intellectual lightweight from Mises.org did.

Greenspan had a conversation with the head of Bank of England at the time and the conclusion they came to was:

'The only way to avoid the consequences of a bursting bubble was to blow another one.'

Look it up.

KarmaPolice wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 9:42 am (in reply to...)

CalculatedRisk wrote:

joeblo, these people have apparently been paying their mortgage for 9 years

No!!!!!!!

According to the HCN intelligentsia, the entire country had stopped paying mortgages on upside-down homes.

GDD9000 wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 9:42 am (in reply to...)

*BTW, I saw "Prometheus" this weekend...fantastic cinematography, but otherwise average presentation. The pacing just didn't seem right...it almost seemed to be a collage of clichés from other Aliens movies.... *

dammit! I am going to see this soon, and I cannot have a disappointment! I cannot!

N.B. my commenting no longer works right.

Cinco-X wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 9:42 am (in reply to...)

mp wrote:

'The only way to avoid the consequences of a bursting bubble was to blow another one.'

I believe that the point is that "avoiding the consequences" is the wrong course of action...

KarmaPolice wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 9:43 am (in reply to...)

Rob Dawg wrote:

No one credible on either side says this.

Cite?

Outsider wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 9:44 am

So are lenders hesitant to do HARP loans? Because I'm not hearing this all over the media like one would think. Maybe HARP refis are just picking up now because many didn't know about them.

1 currency now -yogi wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 9:44 am

"...only 21 years left..."

Wtf?

Outsider wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 9:45 am (in reply to...)

They'll wait ten years.
They'll sell the debt to a collection agency.
Somewhere along the line J6P will pay.

With any luck, J6P will be asset-less the rest of his life.

mp wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 9:46 am

I believe that the point is that "avoiding the consequences" is the wrong course of action...

Whatever.

The point the intellectual lightweight was trying to make was that Krugman recommended that Greenspan blow another bubble, which is total bullshit.

And anyone who knows the historical context knows its total bullshit.

1 currency now -yogi wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 9:47 am (in reply to...)

mp wrote:

its total bullshit.

It is.

Outsider wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 9:47 am (in reply to...)

How is anyone doing appraisals these days? Seems like this would sort of be a moving target not worth shooting at:

I'm seeing crazy priced listings around here - some way too high, and some incredibly low. If comps are really stretched that far across the board, then maybe I should look into HARP instead of a standard refi.

Comrade Troyski wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 9:48 am (in reply to...)

sm_landlord wrote:

Myth of Perpetual Growth is killing America - Paul B. Farrell - MarketWatch

it was linked yesterday, and it was good.

I commented on how the CBO is expecting a $25.7T real economy by 2032.

On our current working population:

All Employees: Total nonfarm (PAYEMS) - FRED - St. Louis Fed

that's $190,000 per job.

If we get 1% job growth for 20 years, that's $160,000 per job (x 160M workers).

People who think adding more bodies to an economy creates more wealth need to ponder why Bangladesh isn't a global power.

sm_landlord wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 9:48 am

U.S. stocks rise on hopes for stimulus - Market Snapshot - MarketWatch

rally.

And the Bernanke trade continues

Rob Dawg wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 9:49 am (in reply to...)

Comrade Troyski wrote:

People who think adding more bodies to an economy creates more wealth need to ponder why Bangladesh isn't a global power.

As long as capital is cheaper than workers jobs will be displaced by automation and outsourcing.

Comrade Troyski wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 9:50 am

Looking at the trend of productivity:

Graph: Real Gross Domestic Product, 1 Decimal (GDPC1)*1000000/All Employees: Total nonfarm (PAYEMS) - FRED - St. Louis Fed

we might be lucky to see $110k/yr per worker by 2032.

josap wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 9:51 am (in reply to...)

sm_landlord wrote:

And the Bernanke trade continues

There are now only two trades.

Bernanke

Europe

Duke of Con Dao wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 9:52 am

The point the intellectual lightweight was trying to make was that Krugman recommended that Greenspan blow another bubble..."
...
odd about Krugman. he's anti-austerity and follows the Keynesian line of gov spending when consumers arent'.
says the time for austerity is when there is a boom time, that's when you pay down accumulated debt... yet
this flies in the face of political reality... almost never happens....

1 currency now -yogi wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 9:52 am (in reply to...)

So what?

sm_landlord wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 9:52 am (in reply to...)

Comrade Troyski wrote:

I commented on how the CBO is expecting a $25.7T real economy by 2032.

On our current working population:

All Employees: Total nonfarm (PAYEMS) - FRED - St. Louis Fed

that's $190,000 per job.

Did you correct for inflation?

bearly wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 9:52 am

["We will be paying roughly $300 more per month, but we are saving $171,000 over the course of the loan," says Oliver, who closed a few weeks ago.]

This is one of those situations where the borrower has some bargaining power. I definitely wouldn't have done a refi unless I got a substantial haircut to principal.

The lender has 2 choices - Lose a lot or lose even more.

Outsider wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 9:53 am (in reply to...)

Gluten? isn't that the glue on postage stamps? Government is poisoning old people!

I haven't seen a lickable stamp in years. You must pay your bills online.

josap wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 9:53 am (in reply to...)

Comrade Troyski wrote:

we might be lucky to see $110k/yr per worker by 2032.

Sure, if min wage is $30. per hr.

RockyR wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 9:54 am

robbing peter to pay paul

ResistanceIsFeudal wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 9:55 am (in reply to...)

Rob Dawg wrote:

As long as capital is cheaper than workers jobs will be displaced by automation and outsourcing.

It will be. It will be.
-The Bernank (with apologies to Yoda)

mp wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 9:57 am

says the time for austerity is when there is a boom time, that's when you pay down accumulated debt... yet
this flies in the face of political reality... almost never happens....

If I provide you with a policy tool--let's call it Keynesian economics--which has the capacity to produce both good and evil results, do I indict the policy tool when it's used for evil purposes, or do I indict the user?

1 currency now -yogi wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 9:56 am

Those people should be put to work giving massages for a dollar an hour.

Duke of Con Dao wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 9:56 am (in reply to...)

Rob Dawg wrote:

Comrade Troyski wrote:
People who think adding more bodies to an economy creates more wealth need to ponder why Bangladesh isn't a global power.

I spent a bit of time on that border when I was in Burma. there are embedded reasons why they aren't a global power.
... also a lot of strife in Myanmar is due to Bangladeshis sneaking across the border into Burma... they are the Mexicans of SE Asia...

Outsider wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 9:58 am (in reply to...)

According to the HCN intelligentsia, the entire country had stopped paying mortgages on upside-down homes.

And they've been living rent free for 5 yrs. now.

And they're walking away everywhere. Gloriously. On your dime.

RockyR wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 9:56 am (in reply to...)

mp wrote:

'The only way to avoid the consequences of a bursting bubble was to blow another one.'

that statement, at least, is correct. but, what does it fix?

people get robbed, life goes on.

Rickkk wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 9:58 am (in reply to...)

mp wrote:

"BTW, I saw "Prometheus" this weekend...fantastic cinematography, but otherwise average presentation. The pacing just didn't seem right...it almost seemed to be a collage of clichés from other Aliens movies...."

Agreed.

I'm looking forward Ridley Scott's treatment of Joe Haldeman's novel, "The Forever War".

Comrade Canadien avec popcorn wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 10:00 am (in reply to...)

bearly wrote:

The lender has 2 choices - Lose a lot or lose even more.

Presumably this and a lot of other pieces of paper were originally chopped up into a million bits, sold to various interests, and are still floating around out there. Who is taking the loss on those bits of paper?

Outsider wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 9:59 am

Forever Wars, Forever Stamps, Forever Debts...

What happened to good ol' fear of commitment?

Rob Dawg wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 10:09 am (in reply to...)

As long as capital is cheaper than workers jobs will be displaced by automation and outsourcing.

1 currency now -yogi wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 9:52 am (in reply to...)
So what?

So many things. Unions become less influential as their currency is a trained labor force. With fewer workers contributing to social safety net programs taxes need to go up on the remainder triggering more displacement. Less demand means stagnant wages. Capital heading overseas and transportation costs weaken national interests.

mp wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 10:00 am

On 8/20/2009 at 10:00 AM mp wrote:

They're in the process of blowing another bubble, and that's why I'm optimistic in the short run, but pessimistic in the long run. Absent any fundamental reform of the system--and I haven't seen any--they'll attempt to re-inflate and, in the process of doing so, the system will probably fail.

Some time ago, I think it was Gordon Brown who said to Alan Greenspan that everyone was pretty well agreed that the only way to cure a burst bubble was to blow another one.

MBA Forecasts Foreclosures to Peak at End of 2010 | Hoocoodanode?

ResistanceIsFeudal wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 10:00 am (in reply to...)

Rickkk wrote:

I'm looking forward Ridley Scott's treatment of Joe Haldeman's novel, "The Forever War".

Aren't we already living that?

justaskin wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 10:00 am

mp wrote
A big sell-off in the Spanish 10, and other Spanish debt, is becoming increasingly likely.

begs the question, who's buying?

Rickkk wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 10:01 am (in reply to...)

RockyR wrote:

"that statement, at least, is correct. but, what does it fix? people get robbed, life goes on."

It is intended only as a temporary measure, to give the plebeians time for a soft-landing, while the patricians get their act together. Live in hope, never die in despair.

Rob Dawg wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 10:02 am (in reply to...)

Duke of Con Dao wrote:

I spent a bit of time on that border when I was in Burma. there are embedded reasons why they aren't a global power.
... also a lot of strife in Myanmar is due to Bangladeshis sneaking across the border into Burma... they are the Mexicans of SE Asia...

Bangladesh explained in two sentences: "Oh look the water has gone down. Let's live here and have a bunch of kids."

mp wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 10:02 am

So far, that comment I made in 2009 is holding up fairly well.

Rickkk wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 10:04 am (in reply to...)

justaskin wrote:

"A big sell-off in the Spanish 10, and other Spanish debt, is becoming increasingly likely. begs the question, who's buying?"

We will never know.

Dark liquidity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

" trading volume or liquidity that is not openly available to the public.[1] "

Outsider wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 10:03 am (in reply to...)

So far, that comment I made in 2009 is holding up fairly well.

We have to pat our own backs, because heaven knows, no one else is going to do it.

(j/k)

mp wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 10:04 am

We have to pat our own backs, because heaven knows, no one else is going to do it.

It makes no difference to me. I'm here for my own reasons, YMMV.

arthur_dent wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 10:05 am (in reply to...)

justaskin wrote:

who's buying?

the lender of last resort is also the buyer of last resort.

RockyR wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 10:07 am (in reply to...)

mp wrote:

It makes no difference to me. I'm here for my own reasons, YMMV.

Rickkk wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 10:09 am (in reply to...)

arthur_dent wrote:

"the lender of last resort is also the buyer of last resort."

Dark Pools - What are they and why should I care? An overview for investor relations professionals by ModernIR

Rob Dawg wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 10:07 am (in reply to...)

Outsider wrote:

So far, that comment I made in 2009 is holding up fairly well.

We have to pat our own backs, because heaven knows, no one else is going to do it.

Okay then how about 2007: Exurban Nation: Stop Paying Your 2nd Now

josap wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 10:08 am (in reply to...)

Rickkk wrote:

" trading volume or liquidity that is not openly available to the public.[1] "

I keep hoping one of these days the public stops playing.
But with 401Ks, CDs, Mutual Funds there isn't a choice.
They are playing with our money, to our detriment.

Mike in Long Island wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 10:09 am (in reply to...)

I'm looking forward Ridley Scott's treatment of Joe Haldeman's novel, "The Forever War".

I did not know they were making a movie of that. I recently revisited that book after almost 20 years from the first read. A good book.

Outsider wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 10:11 am (in reply to...)

Okay then how about 2007: Exurban Nation: Stop Paying Your 2nd Now

Wouldn't your credit get seriously dinged?

I'd like to pay cash for new cars but can't.

And future refis would be out of the question, or future purchases for that matter.

RockyR wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 10:10 am (in reply to...)

Rob Dawg wrote:

Okay then how about 2007: Exurban Nation: Stop Paying Your 2nd Now

sorry. i got distracted by this: $30,000 Millionaires: Douchebags in the Mist - Page 1 - News - Dallas - Dallas Observer

so true.

Outsider wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 10:11 am (in reply to...)

They are playing with our money, to our detriment.

Couldn't you manage your own funds?

I'm pretty sure I could make a living on VXX swings.

Rickkk wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 10:13 am (in reply to...)

"I did not know they were making a movie of that. I recently revisited that book after almost 20 years from the first read. A good book."

He's planning on 3-D, after he saw Avatar. He's waited years to make the movie adaptation, it should kick-ass. One of my favourite reads. Haldeman spent some time in Vietnam.

Rob Dawg wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 10:12 am (in reply to...)

Outsider wrote:

Okay then how about 2007: Exurban Nation: Stop Paying Your 2nd Now

Wouldn't your credit get seriously dinged?
I'd like to pay cash for new cars but can't.

If you stopped paying your second you'd have more than enough to buy a new car in no time. It also looks like the quality used car bubble is beginning to burst in many categories.

josap wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 10:12 am

Indirect bidders, a group which includes foreign central banks, bought 27%, the lowest in more than two years and compared to 35.9% on average.
Treasury sees poor demand at 3-year auction - MarketWatch

Outsider wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 10:13 am (in reply to...)

It also looks like the quality used car bubble is beginning to burst in many categories.

Good, because the bed of the S10 is about to rust off the body. At 200k, it's still going strong tho.

arthur_dent wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 10:13 am

Ridley Scott's Alien ranks among the best for movie thrillers, but my own bias is that Alien plays behind Jaws which I think of as the modern benchmark for movie thrillers.

Duke of Con Dao wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 10:14 am (in reply to...)

Rickkk wrote:

He's planning on 3-D, after he saw Avatar.

Ridley Scott is so played, so tired. I'd rather see a new set of eyeballs on that project.

Outsider wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 10:19 am

Aha. Found an answer to the who's-buying-for-cash question.

Cheap homes lure foreign buyers - Jun. 12, 2012

Most completed deals involving foreign buyers were all-cash, accounting for 62% of foreign sales.

zephyrum wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 10:19 am

Zynga shares plummet as Facebook game craze wanes

Maybe a fad based on a fad isn't a great idea in a down economy.

mp wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 10:20 am

Have a good day.

Rob Dawg wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 10:21 am (in reply to...)

Outsider wrote:

Good, because the bed of the S10 is about to rust off the body. At 200k, it's still going strong tho.

So many of those in the jyard with front end damage you should be able to grab a replacement for a song. If you are really lucky it will be a different color.

Former Idealist wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 10:21 am

Wheres Corzine?

Paradigm Lost wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 10:21 am

mp: Good article by GOPer Bruce Bartlett:

Bruce Bartlett: The Fiscal Legacy of George W. Bush - NYTimes.com

"Republicans assert that Barack Obama assumed sole responsibility for the budget on Jan. 20, 2009. From that date, all increases in the debt or deficit are his responsibility and no one else’s, they say.

This is, of course, nonsense – and the American people know it. " ...

"During the 2000 campaign, Mr. Bush warned that budget surpluses were dangerous because Congress might spend them, even though Paygo rules prevented this from happening. His Feb. 28, 2001, budget message reiterated this point and asserted that future surpluses were likely to be even larger than projected due principally to anticipated strong revenue growth.

This was the primary justification for a big tax cut. " ...

"The 2001 tax cut did nothing to stimulate the economy, yet Republicans pushed for additional tax cuts in 2002, 2003, 2004, 2006 and 2008. The economy continued to languish even as the Treasury hemorrhaged revenue, which fell to 17.5 percent of the gross domestic product in 2008 from 20.6 percent in 2000. Republicans abolished Paygo in 2002, and spending rose to 20.7 percent of G.D.P. in 2008 from 18.2 percent in 2001."

Fits in with our discussion. Link to good CBO and other reports.

Outsider wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 10:21 am (in reply to...)

I passed one S10 recently completely redone in primer green. It's a common problem.

But the jyard might be a great idea - thx.

Rob Dawg wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 10:22 am (in reply to...)

Outsider wrote:

Most completed deals involving foreign buyers were all-cash, accounting for 62% of foreign sales.

There's a cash closing and there's a cash purchase. I doubt many of those are actually being bought with savings.

Duke of Con Dao wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 10:23 am (in reply to...)

Outsider wrote:

Aha. Found an answer to the who's-buying-for-cash question.

guess you didn't live in Cali in the late '70s like I did.
Arabs and Persians were buying up the state. dated a girl whose dad was doctor to the Shah.
family built a huge house in Tiburon... and DC... money was flying out of Tehran long before
he fell...

1 currency now -yogi wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 10:23 am (in reply to...)

Ditto.

1 currency now -yogi wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 10:25 am (in reply to...)

Not an eye doctor by any chance...

justaskin wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 10:27 am (in reply to...)

arthur_dent wrote:

the lender of last resort is also the buyer of last resort.

I suspect there's a fig leaf twixt the two....

Rob Dawg wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 10:27 am (in reply to...)

Duke of Con Dao wrote:

guess you didn't live in Cali in the late '70s like I did.
Arabs and Persians were buying up the state. dated a girl whose dad was doctor to the Shah.
family built a huge house in Tiburon... and DC... money was flying out of Tehran long before
he fell...

Yeah, they were real circumspect at first but got more comfortable by the mid '80s. We always used to laugh about "Persian" as if everyone didn't know what that meant. A buddy owns one of the bigger places a few estates further down from them on the peninsula.

bearly wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 10:27 am (in reply to...)

Comrade Canadien avec popcorn wrote:

Who is taking the loss on those bits of paper?

Priced in. Written down to par already.

poic wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 10:27 am

^
|
|

#1.234e^234

energyecon wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 10:27 am (in reply to...)

RockyR wrote:

i got distracted by this: $30,000 Millionaires: Douchebags in the Mist - Page 1 - News - Dallas - Dallas Observer

Once I started, I could not do anything but finish the article...

Former Idealist wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 10:28 am

Stocks will be coming down for landing. Expect a bumby ride, lots of crosswinds, pilot making adjustments....

justaskin wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 10:29 am (in reply to...)

Rob Dawg wrote:

It also looks like the quality used car bubble is beginning to burst in many categories.

that's the best news you've ever posted here, if it's true

1 currency now -yogi wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 10:30 am (in reply to...)

Rob Dawg wrote:

With fewer workers contributing to social safety net programs taxes need to go up on the remainder triggering more displacement. Less demand means stagnant wages.

Displacement of what? Demand for what? If robots are doing the hard labor there is less need for "social safety net programs".

Rob Dawg wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 10:30 am (in reply to...)

Duke of Con Dao wrote:

Ridley Scott is so played, so tired. I'd rather see a new set of eyeballs on that project.

He was just trying to justify "Alien" after so many years of it just being a monster movie.

Tens of thousands of great sci-fi stories and I am still amazed at the dreck that gets screen treatment.

bearly wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 10:31 am (in reply to...)

Paradigm Lost wrote:

spending rose to 20.7 percent of G.D.P. in 2008 from 18.2 percent in 2001."

Right! Who controlled congress?

Republicans assert that Barack Obama assumed sole responsibility for the budget on Jan. 20, 2009

Right again!

Comrade Troyski wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 10:31 am (in reply to...)

sm_landlord wrote:

Did you correct for inflation?

these are all real numbers

Rob Dawg wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 10:33 am (in reply to...)

justaskin wrote:

Rob Dawg wrote:

It also looks like the quality used car bubble is beginning to burst in many categories.

that's the best news you've ever posted here, if it's true

2004 Honda Pilot EX-L Leather

Edit: Hey wait? Finishing the backspash wasn't great news?

Sebastian wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 10:33 am (in reply to...)

Rickkk wrote:

I'm looking forward Ridley Scott's treatment of Joe Haldeman's novel, "The Forever War".

I'd rather it had been "All My Sins Remembered", but I'd see it.

Of the recent crop of movies, I thought "The Best Exotic Marigold Hotel" was excellent.

Sebastian

Outsider wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 10:35 am (in reply to...)

2004 Honda Pilot EX-L Leather

Meh. The '03 Tracker (4x4) I got last year with 25k miles was half that price. Good reliability record, and so far, so good.

Cinco-X wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 10:33 am (in reply to...)

mp wrote:

Have a good day.

"mp wrote" "Have a good day. " site:http://www.hoocoodanode.org - Google Search

About 1,570 results

picosec wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 10:36 am (in reply to...)

CalculatedRisk wrote:

joeblo, these people have apparently been paying their mortgage for 9 years - and it is very unlikely that they'd default (true for most people with negative equity).

This is something that I discovered quite recently. While roughly half of the purchase loans made around the price peak have going to FC or short sale, the remaining borrowers have been largely very diligent in making payments. Very few have had a Notice of Default filed indicating that they never missed a payment.

Another instance of bifurcation - those who bail and those who don't.

BTW, it does appear that first time homebuyers were more likely to lose their homes than move-up buyers. I attribute this to:
1. Move-up buyers brought equity gain forward so they either made a larger down payment or have a cushion, and
2. The higher end that they were more likely to buy into didn't have as large a bubble and hasn't been hit as hard.

1 currency now -yogi wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 10:36 am

Rob Dawg wrote:

With fewer workers contributing to social safety net programs taxes need to go up on the remainder triggering more displacement. Less demand means stagnant wages.

Displacement of what? Demand for what? If robots are doing the hard labor there is less need for "social safety net programs".

Rickkk wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 10:36 am

Fitch downgrades 18 Spanish banks - The Globe and Mail

Tuesday, Jun. 12 2012, 11:39 AM EDT

picosec wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 10:37 am (in reply to...)

Lurking Lawyer wrote:

The Olivers don't seem very smart. Short sell the sucker, take the exemption from cancellation of indebtedness income tax liability, and move on.

There's two kind of people...

Outsider wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 10:37 am (in reply to...)

"mp wrote" "Have a good day. " site:http://www.hoocoodanode.org - Google Search

Slow day, eh?

Rob Dawg wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 10:38 am (in reply to...)

Outsider wrote:

2004 Honda Pilot EX-L Leather

Meh. The '03 Tracker I got last year with 25k miles was half that price. Good reliability record, and so far, so good.

Not in the same league but both examples of softness. The generic Honda Civic, Nissan Altima, Toyota Corolla stuff is still crazy expensive. Our Civic would go for about 20% less than we paid new in '06. The myth of mileage is strong with $4 gas.

Outsider wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 10:41 am (in reply to...)

Not in the same league

I beg your pardon. Okay, no leather. Okay, the Pilot may be slightly bigger.

Eric wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 10:39 am (in reply to...)

Duke of Con Dao wrote:

dated a girl whose dad was doctor to the Shah.

Of course you did.

Comrade Kristina wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 10:40 am (in reply to...)

Actually wrong. You forgot the war was kept off the books until 2009. Did you think the war fairy was going to pay that tab? It is included in the budgets from 2009 on. The of course we had unfunded Med Part D and the RECORD earmark spending from 2001-2007 while the GOP controlled all of Congress and the Presidency while Bush refused to veto even one spending proposition put forth by Congress...not...one.

Duke of Con Dao wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 10:42 am (in reply to...)

1 currency now -yogi wrote:

Not an eye doctor by any chance...

cardio doc, if memory serves...
blew my chance for an easy score by not delivering a promised term paper ...
[ I mark that down in the annals of my big mouth, no follow through...]

Rob Dawg wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 10:45 am (in reply to...)

Outsider wrote:

Not in the same league

I beg your pardon. Okay, no leather.

Lurking Lawyer wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 10:45 am (in reply to...)

Newsflash, the war tab will be paid for with Iraqi oil.

Outsider wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 10:47 am (in reply to...)

Honda owners pay a snob premium, you know.

I'm not too proud for a Chevrolet.

Rickkk wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 10:48 am (in reply to...)

"Newsflash, the war tab will be paid for with Iraqi oil."

That was the original assumption.

Rob Dawg wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 10:48 am (in reply to...)

Outsider wrote:

Honda owners pay a snob premium, you know.

You say that like it is a bad thing.

Outsider wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 10:48 am

Time to water my slug-infested transplant remnants and hope for a miracle.

Rickkk wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 10:48 am

Markets 'stuck between wanting to panic and cheap valuations' - The Globe and Mail

poic wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 10:49 am

"Honda owners pay a snob premium, you know. "

My first car was a Honda. Definitely snob appeal

picosec wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 10:49 am (in reply to...)

Rob Dawg wrote:

Okay then how about 2007: Exurban Nation: Stop Paying Your 2nd Now

Notable that the first comment to that post was: "First!"

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

GDD9000 wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 10:50 am

Dahdee, I want an umpalumpa!

Bad Dawg Bobby wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 10:50 am

CR, " This will help borrowers get out of a negative equity situation sooner."

Make the banksters reduce the loan to Mark-To-Market. (!) All The bailout money the Taxpayers have GIVEN the Wall Street Banking Syndicate we could have paid off all the Mortgages.

Why are taxpayers expected to CONTINUE to shovel MORE money to the banksters? When can we expect the THIEVERY to STOP?

Rickkk wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 10:51 am

Most MF Global Senior Execs Not Registered With CFTC, Can't Be Charged With Failure To Supervise

06/12/2012

"When $1.6 billion of customer money goes missing, you'd think it would be easier to punish someone for it. Not so at MF Global, the brokerage firm that misplaced the impressive 10-figure sum around the same time that it declared bankruptcy in October. The missing money has since been found, but identifying the parties responsible for the episode has proved more difficult."

poic wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 10:51 am

"Why are taxpayers expected to CONTINUE to shovel MORE money to the banksters? When can we expect the THIEVERY to STOP?"

When there's no more left anywhere in the known Universe.

greenchutes wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 10:52 am

Nice! Looks like the greeks could win the whole thing again! I'm sure the country could use the boost.

Rob Dawg wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 10:53 am (in reply to...)

greenchutes wrote:

Nice! Looks like the greeks could win the whole thing again! I'm sure the country could use the boost.

Shhhh. We promised not to talk results.

dilbert dogbert wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 10:53 am (in reply to...)

Lurking Lawyer wrote:

The Olivers don't seem very smart. Short sell the sucker, take the exemption from cancellation of indebtedness income tax liability, and move on.

Some families can absorb the moving on and some not so well. One move with my family to a new job in LA was all I wanted to experience. We did one more move back to the old area as I thought it better to be unemployed among friends than unemployed among strangers. We lived in the same house for 35 years after that. Had to take a pay cut to do that. Best job decision I ever made.

poic wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 10:54 am

I wonder whether we've got 30k millionaires in SF. A lot of people walking into the W-hotel nearby look suspiciously like those described in that article.

Rickkk wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 10:54 am

Spain borrowing cost crisis: Rate at euro-era high | CTV News

(AP) MADRID — "Spain's benchmark borrowing rate hit its highest level Tuesday since the country adopted the euro currency, after ratings agency Fitch downgraded 18 banks on Tuesday...

The yield on Spain's 10-year bond yield rose to hit 6.81 per cent in afternoon trading, according to data provider FactSet, while stocks seesawed and were down slightly just before markets closed."

greenchutes wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 10:54 am (in reply to...)

I just mean the response to the sweetened spanish bailout, of course.

Is there something else going on?

shill wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 10:54 am

Refreshing News: Indiana passes law that will allow citizens to shoot police officers who illegally enter their homes

Rob Dawg wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 10:55 am (in reply to...)

Bad Dawg Bobby wrote:

Make the banksters reduce the loan to Mark-To-Market.

Huh? Generally accepted accounting principles already require banks to list assets at the lower of either acquisition costs or mark to market already. This has been SOP all along.

steelhead wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 10:55 am (in reply to...)

mp wrote:

So far, that comment I made in 2009 is holding up fairly well.

For those individuals like myself, would you re post that 2009 comment?

picosec wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 10:55 am (in reply to...)

Rob Dawg wrote:

greenchutes wrote:
Nice! Looks like the greeks could win the whole thing again! I'm sure the country could use the boost.
Shhhh. We promised not to talk results.

%#&!$&

dilbert dogbert wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 10:55 am (in reply to...)

rosethorn wrote:

The IMF is bugging Japan Shock

The Japanese will say yes yes and nod their heads to the IMF and then do damn well what they please. I say: Good on them and fu*K the IMF.

greenchutes wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 10:55 am (in reply to...)

SF and Dallas are a few thousand universes apart in terms of economics. If you're 30 and paying SF CoL, there's not much left to even pose with.

RockyR wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 10:58 am

@steelhead: I think it went something like "we're five minutes away from bond market armageddon"... if my memory serves me well.

shill wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 10:58 am

WOW!

YouTube - Blast At Russia Arms Depot Sends Shells Flying Over 4 Kilometers

Rob Dawg wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 10:59 am (in reply to...)

Rickkk wrote:

The yield on Spain's 10-year bond yield rose to hit 6.81 per cent in afternoon trading, according to data provider FactSet, while stocks seesawed and were down slightly just before markets closed."

The speed and ferocity with which the beatdown occurred breaching 6.8x% was pure shock and awe. The line has been drawn.

Count de Monet wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 11:00 am (in reply to...)

shill wrote:

Refreshing News: Indiana passes law that will allow citizens to shoot police officers who illegally enter their homes

The best line from when this topic came up last night.

Duke of Con Dao wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 11:02 am (in reply to...)

RockyR wrote:

"we're five minutes away from bond market armageddon"

yep, and the Conjure Clock died an everlasting death.

GDD9000 wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 11:04 am

Not unlike the bottomless can of uniflo, which doesn't die until they tear down the gas station.

Not that anyone here what know the bottomless Uniflo trick...

Rob Dawg wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 11:04 am

For energyecon,
Are you watching the six month futures gap?
July '12 $2.257
Jan '13 $3.232
Delta 98¢
Delta 43%

Insane. Yes, there is seasonality to back out but still...

yuan wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 11:04 am

Economist's View: 'A Rerun of Europe in 1931'

Must read with must read links.

poic wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 11:06 am

"yep, and the Conjure Clock died an everlasting death."

Luckily we have your incessant name dropping to fill in the void that was left.

mp wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 11:07 am (in reply to...)

RockyR wrote:

"we're five minutes away from bond market armageddon"

yep, and the Conjure Clock died an everlasting death.

In 2008, the system came within hours of melting down. I'll put my record up against anyone's.

YouTube - CSPAN Rep Paul Kanjorski Reviews the Bailout Situation

greenchutes wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 11:10 am (in reply to...)

But where is winston with his marker, cocktail napkin and cocktail to save us?

Anyhow, Minsky-Kindleberger vs Friedman is roughly equivalent to stalin vs . Neither really wants free markets.

dilbert dogbert wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 11:09 am (in reply to...)

mp wrote:

Greenspan had a conversation with the head of Bank of England at the time and the conclusion they came to was:

'The only way to avoid the consequences of a bursting bubble was to blow another one.'

Greenpunks testimony to Congress on how dangerous it was to pay off the national debt is something that should condemn this man forever.

RockyR wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 11:09 am

those were pretty exciting times, mp. I wonder if we'll get back there. something tells me that was a once in a lifetime event.

mp wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 11:11 am

something tells me that was a once in a lifetime event.

I certainly hope so, but don't count on it.

Lobbyist Ben Dover wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 11:11 am (in reply to...)

"I beg your pardon. Okay, no leather."

PETA approves.

dilbert dogbert wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 11:12 am (in reply to...)

Comrade Troyski wrote:

why Bangladesh isn't a global power

Wow! Just Wow! You can do better than that.

greenchutes wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 11:12 am (in reply to...)

Of course we won't. There was still a faint aroma of the ghost of the last vestige of "moral hazard" in the air then, a dozen years after LTCM gave it the first gut punch. That was finally totally buried 40 months ago, forever.

energyecon wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 11:12 am (in reply to...)

Rob Dawg wrote:

Insane. Yes, there is seasonality to back out but still...

If only one had access to storage... bet it would cost, say I dunno $0.98/mcf?

sm_landlord wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 11:13 am (in reply to...)

Rickkk wrote:

Markets 'stuck between wanting to panic and cheap valuations' - The Globe and Mail

FTA:

The chief economist of Gluskin Sheff + Associates, one of the world's great bears, says he's the light "at the end of a dark tunnel" and that "the future is brighter than you think." Indeed, by Thanksgiving he could be a "perma-bull."

Holy Smokes!

energyecon wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 11:13 am (in reply to...)

Don't let that dyspeptic windbag reminiscing about glory days that never were get your goat mp...

Comrade Kristina wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 11:13 am (in reply to...)

Why would it be? They've done NOTHING to fix the problems that caused the last "event". Everything is being done the same way and by the same people for the most part so why would things change? As soon as they stop the liquidity pump it all crashes again. It's like keeping granny attached to life support until she's 200 even though she hasn't spoken a word or moved in 110 years.

Rob Dawg wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 11:13 am (in reply to...)

yuan wrote:

Economist's View: 'A Rerun of Europe in 1931'

Must read with must read links.

That was great. Many thanks. Nice references to Minsky. I was once attending a visiting lecturer series and had the temerity to ask a question of the Laurette giving the talk. After an excellent answer some old guy right behind me says "following up on that question..." It was Minsky. The lecture topic was astrophysics.

shill wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 11:14 am

Activist Post: DHS agencies to buy up to 7,000 new 5.56x45mm NATO 'personal defense weapons'

Why would it be?

My exact question....why.

Lurking Lawyer wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 11:14 am (in reply to...)

The MM guarantee effectively handled the situation.

Bruce in Tennessee wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 11:14 am

The Real Story Of The Day: GERMAN BONDS - Business Insider

"But it's also possible that markets are starting to see German bonds -- as one twitterer put it -- as defacto Eurobonds.

If Germany is pot-commited to backstopping the debt of the entire Eurozone -- as hedge funder Mark Dow suggests -- then it stands to reason that Germany isn't the perfect risk-free credit that people assume. No matter how fiscally stable it is, Germany doesn't have its own printing press like the UK, Japan, and the US do."

greenchutes wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 11:14 am (in reply to...)

Comrade Kristina wrote:

It's like keeping granny attached to life support until she's 200 even though she hasn't spoken a word or moved in 110 years.

Nah, granny is only 40, but she was born addicted to junk and has been doing belushi-sized speedballs since her first period.

energyecon wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 11:14 am (in reply to...)

Do it for the children!

dilbert dogbert wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 11:15 am (in reply to...)

mp wrote:

says the time for austerity is when there is a boom time, that's when you pay down accumulated debt... yet

this flies in the face of political reality... almost never happens....

If I provide you with a policy tool--let's call it Keynesian economics--which has the capacity to produce both good and evil results, do I indict the policy tool when it's used for evil purposes, or do I indict the user?

"almost never happens": I refer you to the years of the Clinis and post WW2 as examples to ponder.

Comrade Kristina wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 11:15 am (in reply to...)

yuan wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 11:15 am

Krugman's 13 best GOP zingers - Photos - 2 of 13 - POLITICO.com

“All he does is make scary noises about the deficit, with mood music, with organ music in the background about how ominous it is, and then propose a plan that would in fact increase the deficit.” — May 3, 2012, speaking with TPM about Rep. Paul Ryan (R-WI)

“In fact, all four significant Republican presidential candidates still standing are fiscal phonies. They issue apocalyptic warnings about the dangers of government debt and, in the name of deficit reduction, demand savage cuts in programs that protect the middle class and the poor. But then they propose squandering all the money thereby saved — and much, much more — on tax cuts for the rich.” — — March 1, 2012, in a column, “Four Fiscal Phonies,” about Romney's warning of a "Greece-style collapse" under Obama.

good stuff.

but this is my favorite:

If Ron Paul got on TV and said ‘Gah gah goo goo debasement! theft!’ — which is a rough summary of what he actually did say — his supporters would say that he won the debate hands down.” — May 1, 2012, blogging “On the Uselessness of Debates.”

Mike in Long Island wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 11:16 am (in reply to...)

The best line from when this topic came up last night.

NYPD Officer Indicted In Death Of Unarmed Bronx Teen - NY1.com

greenchutes wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 11:17 am (in reply to...)

yuan wrote:

Gah gah goo goo debasement! theft!’

More genuine insight into the role of the Fed in those six words than the million or so words has published in a lifetime.

Former Idealist wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 11:18 am (in reply to...)

Why would it be? They've done NOTHING to fix the problems that caused the last "event". Everything is being done the same way and by the same people for the most part so why would things change? As soon as they stop the liquidity pump it all crashes again. It's like keeping granny attached to life support until she's 200 even though she hasn't spoken a word or moved in 110 years.

well said

Rob Dawg wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 11:18 am (in reply to...)

greenchutes wrote:

Gah gah goo goo debasement! theft!’

More genuine insight into the role of the Fed in those six words than the million or so words Silence is Golden Brown has published in a lifetime.

|+1| I miss tags.

Comrade Kristina wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 11:19 am

Hahahaha nice smack down...
Daily Kos: Race Baiting And The Mortgage Crisis by Gretchen Morgenson

Comrade Kristina wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 11:19 am

Okay, must go outside and do my workout. I've run out of excuses now. BBIAB.

ResistanceIsFeudal wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 11:22 am (in reply to...)

Comrade Kristina wrote:

It's like keeping granny attached to life support until she's 200 even though she hasn't spoken a word or moved in 110 years.

That's because the people who made that decision are the same folks who paralyzed and silenced her in the first place. Coincidentally they also own the treatment facility and equipment.

RockyR wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 11:22 am (in reply to...)

energyecon wrote:

Don't let that dyspeptic windbag reminiscing about glory days that never were get your goat mp...

dyspeptic? windbag???

ok. maybe that's half true.

Cinco-X wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 11:23 am (in reply to...)

Outsider wrote:

Time to water my slug-infested transplant remnants and hope for a miracle.

A saucer of cheap beer should take care of the slugs...and you can feed them to the chickens too!

yuan wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 11:23 am (in reply to...)

More genuine insight into the role of the Fed in those six words than the million or so words Silence is Golden Brown has published in a lifetime.

if you say so...but i much prefer fiat to feudal.

energyecon wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 11:24 am (in reply to...)

Not intended for you Rocky, but the actual author:

Duke of Con Dao wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 2:02 pm (in reply to...) replyRockyR wrote:

"we're five minutes away from bond market armageddon"

yep, and the Conjure Clock died an everlasting death.

Comrade Canadien avec popcorn wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 11:24 am (in reply to...)

Comrade Kristina wrote:

Hahahaha nice smack down...
Daily Kos: Race Baiting And The Mortgage Crisis by Gretchen Morgenson

Tanta vive!!!

Rob Dawg wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 11:25 am (in reply to...)

yuan wrote:

if you say so...but i much prefer fiat to feudal.

If we give you a title and grants to South Detroit will that change your mind?

Rob Dawg wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 11:26 am (in reply to...)

Comrade Canadien avec popcorn wrote:

Comrade Kristina wrote:

Hahahaha nice smack down...
Daily Kos: Race Baiting And The Mortgage Crisis by Gretchen Morgenson

Tanta vive!!!

I sure hope they gave full credit to Barry R for "breaking" this story years ago.

Cinco-X wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 11:26 am (in reply to...)

shill wrote:

YouTube - Blast At Russia Arms Depot Sends Shells Flying Over 4 Kilometers

It looks like it was filmed from a little over a mile away, so the camera was well within the blast zone...

Comrade Kristina wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 11:27 am (in reply to...)

The same meme is being pushed in Europe as well except of course it's "those people" referring to Spaniards and Greeks instead of "insert race here". It is basically going to be anyone but the people that actually made billions and billions of dollars selling shitty mortgages fault.

JP wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 11:27 am

I hope TPTB are paying attention with all of that Spanish noise going on: Italy Govt Bonds 10 Year Gross Yield Chart - GBTPGR10 - Bloomberg

Cinco-X wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 11:27 am (in reply to...)

Count de Monet wrote:

The best line from when this topic came up last night.

You guys say that like it's a bad thing...

Eric wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 11:27 am

Just surfed over to Mish's site.

Wild, unadulterated batshit crazy going on there.

The Mortgage Pig wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 11:28 am

Lawler: Table of Short Sales and Foreclosures for Selected Cities

ResistanceIsFeudal wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 11:29 am (in reply to...)

Cinco-X wrote:

A saucer of cheap beer should take care of the slugs...and you can feed them to the chickens too!

Bud Lite to the rescue!

Cinco-X wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 11:31 am (in reply to...)

Comrade Kristina wrote:

Why would it be? They've done NOTHING to fix the problems that caused the last "event". Everything is being done the same way and by the same people for the most part so why would things change? As soon as they stop the liquidity pump it all crashes again.

Spoken like a true Austrian....

joeblo wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 11:31 am (in reply to...)

poic wrote:

A lot of people walking into the W-hotel nearby look suspiciously like those described in that article.
Have you noticed that there's a new one down in Newark or something (Fremont?)... what is it full of?

You mean they look like they got HAMPed?
Didn't notice which other article you might have meant...

RE wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 11:32 am (in reply to...)

Cinco-X wrote:

Austrian wizards

Now that is a contradiction in terms. The primary basis of Austrian economics is that prices and wages are flexible.

That hasn't been the case for at least close to a hundred years. Austrians live in a make believe world some 200 years ago where the establishment pulled all the strings and long-term contracts a rarity..

Hayek's mea culpa is perfect evidence.

a few things

I have to admit that I took a different attitude forty years ago, at the beginning of the Great Depression. At that time I believed that a process of deflation of some short duration might break the rigidity of wages which I thought was incompatible with a functioning economy. Perhaps I should even then have understood that this possibility no longer existed. . . . I still believe that we shall not get a functioning economy until wages again become flexible, hut I think that we shall have to find different techniques for that purpose.

Followed by:

Today I believe that deflation has no recognizable function whatever, and that there is no justification for supporting or permitting a process of deflation [1974, p. 5].

Without old style booms and extreme busts Austrianism doesn't work and even then it wouldn't except for an elite.

pavel.chichikov wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 11:33 am

“In these circumstances, the third positive alternative of international institutions with real authority and sovereignty is pressing.”

Authority over the global economy, global governance? Held by whom? And to what effect?

rosethorn wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 11:33 am (in reply to...)

Agreed on Japan's response. But the IMF has to look like it's doing something...

Duke of Con Dao wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 11:36 am (in reply to...)

energyecon wrote:

dyspeptic windbag

at least I don't pose as a Daniel Yergin wanna-bee ... I'd like to think that some of my stories
have a picaresque quality to them, at touch of Cervantes, if I may say.
...
I did like the Conjure Clock, but in the end, it was a cheap parlor trick...

Bad Dawg Bobby wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 11:37 am (in reply to...)

YouTube - CSPAN Rep Paul Kanjorski Reviews the Bailout Situation

How many times do we have to buy the bad assets / pay the bankers for their losses ? There has been no payment reductions or loan amount reductions.

Never mind, this is like the hundredth time we have gone over this and I've seem this You-Tube many times . I just disagree with the man that the Government , even the entire banking system would have failed if we let the banks fail.
And I have a question that has never been clearly answered, Who started the Billion Dollar Computer Run on the economy that started this mess? Was it lagit or a Hack job? Was it a country or an indivivual? Who withdrew the billions and why that caused this banking collapse?

pavel.chichikov wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 11:37 am

Disinterested philosopher kings waiting to take charge.

pavel.chichikov wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 11:40 am

Market on a pogo stick.

Comrade Troyski wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 11:46 am (in reply to...)

nm

JimPortlandOR wrote on Tue, 6/12/2012 - 11:50 am (in reply to...)

Rob Dawg wrote: