How can this happen? This is America...???

what else is expected to decline sharply

Obama: Something is wrong with country's politics - Yahoo! News

and this takes the

This will take some pressure off a lot of people, which I see as a positive step.

Especially now.

Gas prices are much more significant than the price of glod to me.

Nice interactive chart!

Hard to say how long the price of oil stays down, though. I'm not optimistic that it will last more than a few months at most.

"Gas prices go up and down"

sporkfed wrote:

If qe3 comes wouldn't gas prices rise ?

Not if the Euro collapses first.

edit: we're still waiting to see the "flight to safety" bump in the dollar.

I'm picturing two drunks leaving a bar.

Old hacking tricks work too easily in attacks on HTML5, security expert says | VentureBeat

“The attack surface just got significantly larger,” Chow said in a follow-up interview. “Now with HTML5, a large population of victims can be reached very easily thanks to the complexities of the new web browser.”

?? YouTube - AMERICAN TUNE by Paul Simon/September 5, 1974

Well, as energyecon had mentioned earlier, you have to remember that gas prices are not specifically linked to WTI, but rather more like to Brent, so that might be a better chart. But the correlation is rather close, so this will do.

In general, this, and the birth rate (in a diff way) are sort of what we think of as "automatic stabilizers" such as UE bennies were thought to be, but now, less so, since we have a permanent unemployable underclass runnin out o bennies.

anyway, I know it's late, I know I'm weary. I know your plans, don't involve me.

SPOOL wrote:

Bachmann asked whether wives should be submissive  | ajc.com

i wonder if hillary got the same question?

mp wrote:

Looks recession-like to me.

No job, no driving.
Gas up, driving down.
Wages down, no shopping trips.

I love that gasbuddy chart, CR.

For anyone who wants to know the Canadian pain, feel free to select "Canada Average" on "Area 2".

You guys down south have got it easy.

josap wrote:

No job, no driving.
Gas up, driving down.
Wages down, no shopping trips.

And traffic is still a mess. We just can't seem to win.

sm_landlord wrote:

And traffic is still a mess. We just can't seem to win.

Construction season will be over soon. At least that's what I keep telling myself on my third detour of the day.

mp wrote:

Yesterday, OPEC announced that they're cutting back.

that's good... in the name of conservation and all. conserve.

mp wrote:

Yesterday, OPEC announced that they're cutting back.

Thank goodness oil traders can rely on the OPEC Enforcement Division to monitor output and make sure they're following through on their promise.

{snicker}

Failed 30-Year Auction Closes Rough Week; Treasurys Fall - CNBC

CNBC pulled the article as noted here along with a copy of the original

skk wrote:

its not new browser

I think they are just alluding to all updated HTML5 browsers....

==> Hmmm Yah, I see your point: "Cloud Reader will automatically sync with other Kindle apps, allowing you to start reading on the Web and pick up on an iPhone or Kindle, for example. Books that you are reading will automatically be made available for offline use."

Sync up all the hackers into super-mode.... (Batboy will be on this in no time ... probably way ahead of the curve)!

... the bigger debate is if I can stand to crawl into wmt for a F'ing mop

.. maybe I'll just tape a few of my ex's tampon-pad-things on my shoes and walk around

I should qualify "a lot."

I've noticed this over the last 2 to 3 weeks. At least 2-3 per day.

The only other time I recall that many was in '92.

RockyR wrote:

well, we KNOW she doesn't like pearls.

Nor

SPOOL wrote:

Bachmann asked whether wives should be submissive  | ajc.com

depends on the scene I guess

mp wrote:

I'm now seeing a lot of hitchhikers at interstate on-ramps wearing rucksacks or carrying suitcases.

We don't have a national train system anymore ( Amtrak is a shell )
WGBH American Experience . Riding the Rails | PBS
At the height of the Great Depression, more than a quarter million teenagers were living on the road in America, many criss-crossing the country by illegally hopping freight trains. This film tells the story of ten of these teenage hobos -- from the reasons they left home to what they experienced -- all within the context of depression-era America.

Now would be the perfect time to reduce FICA and increase gas taxes.
Reduces the trade deficit, neutral on tax receipts, encourages conservation.

DOW 10K hats again tomorrow?

Anyone count how many times it's crossed into the 10s over the past 12 yrs?

Lots of retail $$$$ raked up by the casino over that time.

how about telling the opec to kiss our ass, if you don't want to play ball, were out of here and will inject 5 trillion into national solar grid....

Childe Roland To The Dark Tower Came - Robert Browning (1812-1883)
First:
My first thought was, he lied in every word,
That hoary cripple, with malicious eye
Askance to watch the working of his lie
On mine, and mouth scarce able to afford
Suppression of the glee, that pursed and scored
Its edge, at one more victim gained thereby.

and last:
There they stood, ranged along the hill-sides, met
To view the last of me, a living frame
For one more picture! in a sheet of flame
I saw them and I knew them all. And yet
Dauntless the slug-horn to my lips I set,
And blew. ``Childe Roland to the Dark Tower came.''

Do you see it yet? That Dark Tower has materialized again on the misty horizon.

I just want to distill the OPEC cutting back production rumor, they aint cuttin back on nuthin. Those guys are gonna pump at full tilt till the well coughs up dust.

What makes you think one IOTA that Chavez and his brethren are gonna shut down the pumps, you think they want more full blown riots and dictorship regime change? Seriously. get a clue.

Critical Update Notificat... wrote:

What makes you think one IOTA that Chavez and his brethren are gonna shut down the pumps, you think they want more full blown riots and dictorship regime change? Seriously. get a clue.

Hey, I'm just the messenger. They made an announcement. Make of it what you will.

Postal Service proposing cutting 120,000 jobs - Business - US business - msnbc.com

cgr

Mr Slippery wrote:

What a fun week! Let's go for a 5th 400+ point DOW move tomorrow, doesn't matter which way.

Reminds me of watching a gyroscope hitting gimbal lock, then swinging to the other stop.

mp wrote:

Reminds me of watching a gyroscope hitting gimbal lock, then swinging to the other stop.

Maybe that's one of the models used by some of the HFT because it can make a guaranteed profit if the market moves accordingly.

Oji wrote:

But even if we had the political will-- we don't-- we'd be a a generation away from getting there.

But it would sure be fun to try.

Speaking of fossil fuels, I like this as well.

Fee and dividend - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Fee and dividend is a revenue-neutral mechanism designed to impose a progressive fee on carbon emissions and return the fee to the public, which has been proposed as an alternative method of reduction in fossil fuel use to cap and trade and emissions trading mechanisms"

Very Ironic: Tripoli Calm While London Burns Black Star News editorial

Oji wrote:

rather than the same ol' boogey man foreign policy and Bible-thumping domestic politics.

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One says to the other: "Does this taste funny to you?"

Dalia Marin on Outsourcing, Income Inequality, CEO Pay « naked capitalism

Oji wrote:

Bible-thumping domestic politics.

The fat lady hasn't even begun to warm up:

No offense intended to anyone anywhere: YouTube - Sister Rosetta Tharpe - Up Above My Head

Fossil fuels are finite, no ifs, ands, or buts.

Not to be argumentative, but i must disagree. On a human scale yes, on a geologic scale, certainly not.

When I think of all the shithole countries we've blown up over the years, and the wealth that was squandered, it becomes really depressing.

If we'd chosen to do so, we could have provided a world-class education to every person in America and tackled a lot of these problems, like clean air and water, energy independence, cancer, to name just a few.

And we would have had billions left over for "coffee money."

Former Idealist wrote:

Or state gas tax was increased this year. Didn't do anything but take food outta babes mouths.

Which is why fee and dividend works better. Funds are returned to the public, per capita. People in lower classes tend to use less energy (smaller homes, fly less, drive less, etc..), and would benefit.

It would also incentivize, down to the household level, conservation strategies...you could profit from using less energy (or producing your own). If we also allow people to sell energy into the grid, there's another potential income source for someone with some land and/or creativity. We turn households into entrepr.

Doc Holiday wrote:

The fat lady hasn't even begun to warm up:

I'm afraid you're right. Economic distress is gonna bring out the anger like nothing else.

Thank God almighty, another Texan asshole attempting to lead the KKK into the shitter Change ya'll can believe in!

Perry announces he’ll run for president - The Boston Globe

Doc Holiday wrote:

Oh for pity sakes, now I've heard it all... WTF happened to multi-tasking? Double Dip New Keyboard

600-800 comments a day, no problem. 2500-5000 comments a day - WTF?

"'Any temporary measures to influence the exchange rate are permissible under our mandate as long as these are consistent with long-term price stability,' he said.

Mr Jordan added that the central bank could employ other tactics, however, raising speculation that the central bank could impose penalty rates on non-resident franc deposits for the first time since the 1970s. "
Swiss central bank considers euro peg
G7 SDR schwag confab sez

People in lower classes tend to use less energy (smaller homes, fly less, drive less, etc..), and would benefit.

As a percent of income. doubtful at best and nothing benefits lower classes.

I am the FORMER Idealist

Oji has good points.

Time to load up on hou.to

Former Idealist wrote:

As a percent of income. doubtful at best

You obviously didn't read the link. Percent of income isn't relevant. The yardstick total usage per capita, nationwide. You use less than the per capita avg for the country, you profit.

Pre-market dow down 80. I know, I know, FED NY can buy that up with two computer strokes.

YouTube - Badly Drawn Boy - 40 days 40 fights

km4 wrote:

Obama: Something is wrong with country's politics -

Jeepers Wally: Nearly 80 percent said they were dissatisfied with the way the country's political system works, compared with 60 percent in November 2009.

Despite Obama's calls for urgent action on the economy, Congress has left Washington for its August recess and Obama will soon follow for his annual summer vacation in Martha's Vineyard.

Tom Stone wrote:

We are going to have a heckuva lot fewer humans in a few more decades.

Not according to Hans Rosling. Fertility rates may be falling, but Rosling argues that what really brings the birth rate down is prosperity. As a woman's standard of living rises, she has fewer children. TED: Ideas worth spreading

Noob, I live in an area with a great number of people doing green projects, including Ag. Permaculture is, as you noted,not practical. I will say that many of the innovations being tried work well in reducing the amount of chemical fertilizers and pesticides needed. Sonoma County does have problems with Monoculture but increasing fuel costs and climatic changes have begun to change this.

mp wrote:

Anyway, I can't eat what he eats. After a couple of hours of physical work I'd become exhausted.

Doesn't sound like he's eating an optimal diet. It's quite possible to be vegan and be completely unhealthy. It's also possible to eat nothing but raw plants and have the strength and stamina of a teenager at any age.

Clearly the solution is to build a new earth. I mean since we aren't going traipsing through the galaxy anytime soon, we might as well build earth 2 and connect it with some of Noob's space elevators...now don't going ruining my idea by thinking about it. We'll start accepting ARK EarthB applications soon.

Feckless Ness wrote:

Tom Stone wrote:

We are going to have a heckuva lot fewer humans in a few more decades.

Not according to Hans Rosling. Fertility rates may be falling, but Rosling argues that what really brings the birth rate down is prosperity. As a woman's standard of living rises, she has fewer children. TED: Ideas worth spreading

We are way past due for a pandemic, there is significant climate change occurring and pollution is just beginning to take a toll. Fukushima's effects on japan are just one example.

That's inexcusable.

Feckless Ness wrote:

As a woman's standard of living rises, she has fewer children

Yes, status of women is key. They are the global underclass. Women tend to take responsibility for childrens' health and education in poor countries (and lower classes in rich countries) as well, so helping women helps children.
Women need property rights, civil rights, representation/electoral rights, reproductive rights, etc... Reducing poverty in women, too, tends to decrease birthrates, which also increases women's quality of life, as it leads to more time for personal skill and knowledge development.

Oji wrote:

Yes, status of women is key. They are the global underclass. Women tend to take responsibility for childrens' health and education in poor countries (and lower classes in rich countries) as well, so helping women helps children.
Women need property rights, civil rights, representation/electoral rights, reproductive rights, etc... Reducing poverty in women, too, tends to decrease birthrates, which also increases women's quality of life, as it leads to more time for personal skill and knowledge development.

And they are more fun (deleted) when they are happy!

mp wrote:

eating what he eats.

Like what? It takes a while to adapt to a plant-based diet. It can be a very uncomfortable transition. I can promise you, though, if you know what you're doing, you feel on Cloud 9.

Feckless Ness wrote:

Humans are not carnivores.

Well, some are.
Due to a weird kidney condition, I consume vast amounts of protien to stay alive. Meat is the most bang for the mouth full.

Feckless Ness wrote:

Humans are not carnivores.

No, but we are omnivores. True, more veggies, less meat does improve most people's health, but we did evolve to eat meat. In fact, the turn towards including animal protein in our diet may have fueled the expansion of hominid brain capacity and physical growth.

06.14.99 - Meat-eating was essential for human evolution, says UC Berkeley anthropologist specializing in diet

Feckless Ness wrote:

And while you may consume a lot of meat, your body is not built for it.

Mahatma Gandhi, as you know, walked barefoot most of the time, which produced an impressive set of calluses on his feet. He also ate very little, which made him rather frail and with his odd diet, he suffered from bad breath. This made him (oh, man, this is so bad, it's good) ... a super-calloused fragile mystic hexed by halitosis.

Oji wrote:

Thanks for the explanation. Yields are much higher than you may have heard, and require fewer inputs over time. Yes, ecological sustainability is the goal, though, so that part is correct.

I have no doubt that local yields in some areas are excellent. I'm not pooh-poohing the entire concept, as the greatest innovations are always found just short of the impossible. Secondly, please don't assume that I'm happy or comfortable with our ADM/Cargill/Bayer-directed agri-food system; quite the opposite. But I don't see an easy (or even viable) path from our current low-labour high-efficiency mechanized system to a high-labour low-input permanent system.

I should say, however, that the transition would be enabled with a gradual reduction in the availability of fossil fuels. At the height of the 2008 food spike, I heard of a number of farmers who began exploring organic production just to get away from the $1K/tonne fertilizer charge. Unfortunately, that transition would require significant quantities of cheap labour. For many organic farms, they get their cheap labour from University students who travel across the country, seeking adventure. Perhaps, if issues become acute, people would trade labour for food.

As it stands right now, there's hardly the labour available for our current mechanized industrial agriculture system.

Yes, meat was only for the Gods, and the priests, and the soldiers, but not the people. No we're not carnivores. Good night everyone.

Tom Stone wrote:

I will say that many of the innovations being tried work well in reducing the amount of chemical fertilizers and pesticides needed.

Thanks for your insight, Tom. Unfortunately, with grain prices so high, no one wants to run land fallow or wait for an organic system to take root; there's just too much money to be lost, on the whole.

I went into some bars thinking like a carnivore during my sport mating years...

Feckless Ness wrote:

Animal protein is very bad for the kidneys.

I have one kidney that strips out all the protein as it filters my blood.
Animals are very high in protein per weight. I can't imagine the amount of other foods I would have to try to eat. Animal organs are best, hearts are good. You don't have to eat fatty meats, or eat the fat trimmings.

Feckless Ness wrote:

Like what? It takes a while to adapt to a plant-based diet.

I don't remember the menu, but it took some getting used to. It was tasty, though.

His wife, bless her, uses a computer to calculate all the data for him because he's also diabetic, but the manage it through his diet.

I confess, however, that on a couple of occasions she did prepare some chicken for me.

At the end of the day, it's not for me. I don't have his problems and my cardiologist tells me that my arteries look like those of a 25-year-old, which is probably bullshit. Anyway, I pretty much eat whatever I want. I weigh the same as I did when I was in the army and can still wear my Class A. It may be because I move around a lot and do physical stuff. I don't know.

we need to make this happen....I thought free solar for people who kept paying their mortgages was a great qe....labor creation plus rewarding people who kept their word...reward good and good flows from it..reward greed and weeds grow around it...

Feckless Ness wrote:

Humans are not carnivores.

I see very few herbivores with canine teeth.

Oji wrote:

Borrowing rates are very, very low. Perfect time to take advantage of it and create long-term efficiencies in infrastructure and human capital.

Absolutely, but it won't happen.

Diabetes is reversible. It doesn't have to be a life sentence.

OK, now back to the insane bullpooppooo of the Market.

mp wrote:

Absolutely, but it won't happen.

On a national scale, no, I don't think it will. As you are fond of posting.
At the local level, however, things are happening. It will probably take a complete breakdown, unfortunately, and some period of chaos and uncertainty, to achieve widespread change, but it will come, if only due to the pent-up desire to move forward.

Vonbek777 wrote:

The body remembers, even when the mind forgets.

Vegetarian diets helped keep the slaves in their place. Meat was for royalty and the chosen of the local tribal gawd

mp, " Oji wrote:

Borrowing rates are very, very low. Perfect time to take advantage of it and create long-term efficiencies in infrastructure and human capital. "

You missed that opportunity a couple years ago.

That money went to Europe, with TARP.

km4 wrote:

We don't have a national train system anymore ( Amtrak is a shell )

Guess that's why ridership has increased for the 19th month in a row May marked 19 consecutive months of Amtrak ridership growth and "says Engel, adding that Amtrak already has captured 69 percent of air-rail traffic on the NEC corridor south of New York, and 52 percent north of New York." Amtrak: keeping an eye on the long-range forecast for U.S. intercity passenger rail

The Capitol Corridor and the Surfliner of Amtrak CA have the 2nd & 3rd highest ridership, and the CC has a 90%( sometimes higher) OTP, better than many if not most airlines.

Certainly it could be better funded and it'd be great if more of the routes from the 1970's were restored.

Mary wrote:

Antipodes complains about NZ food prices. Here and there is plenty stocks, but export price supports punish domestic market.

Is that true for Brazil as well? A coworker told me how expensive everything is there - many times what we pay - yet they manufacture domestically and their production costs must be much lower than ours. Cheap labor, resource rich - yet their goods are astronomically high.

I know this is crazy talk, but it almost sounds like the investor class is deliberately plundering the masses.

Critical Update Notificat... wrote:

the OPEC nations pump at full tilt.

There seems to be some question as to what "full tilt" now means for KSA, i.e, how much is left to recover.

ResistanceIsFeudal wrote:

Vegetarian diets helped keep the slaves in their place. Meat was for royalty and the chosen of the local tribal gawd

Yes, I pointed that out up thread. There is a secret to running professional armies all the way back to the beginning of time. Maybe Solomon or Plato's philosopher king was enlightened like Daniel, but there sure as hell was meat in the officers and soldiers mess. I mean my god Mithras is rolling in his cave.

Bad Dawg Bobby wrote:

You missed that opportunity a couple years ago.

That money went to Europe, with TARP

Politically, yes, it does seem to have passed. Rate-wise, though, still good to go. Who knows, enough pain, enough angry voices, and the opportunity may come again. I'm wondering if a Republican Pres. may be necessary to make it happen-- to avoid all the ineveitable nutbaggery about "SOCIALISM!!!"

Bob Dobbs wrote:

Maybe your body makes the mutated "good" cholesterol that "sands" fat deposits off the sides of the arteries.

Bob, I have no idea and have no intention of asking.

The less time I spend around medical types the better.

Better for me. Better for them.

sh!t, how can they afford to sell chickens for the price they do? 1$ a pound or so, including feeding, plucking, cleaning, transportation to the supermarket, etc.

Well apparently they can't....kill a bunch of chickens and close shop...see 1200 lost jobs.

Vonbek777 wrote:

Yes, I pointed that out up thread. There is a secret to running professional armies all the way back to the beginning of time.

Ah, sorry, missed that -- have been watching a thunderstorm roll through here for the past hour... quite the lightshow

LOL

noob goldberg wrote:

Suffice to say, any chicken outside a very narrow range of acceptable size is penalized because it doesn't fit through the machinery. I believe the acceptable variation on size was in the neighbourhood of only a hundred grams or something, but don't quote me.

Wanna see inside a chicken operation? Try this.

Food, Inc. | Watch Free Documentary Online

You just may decide industrially-produced chicken isn't so cheap after all.

steinly wrote:

Didn't Bachmann sign some "family" organization pledge which included asserting this?

Can't find a copy of the pledge but apparently it had language indicating the black children were better off when they & their parents were slaves Bachmann Signs Pledge with Questionable Slavery Reference | Mother Jones plus marriage for heteros only, etc.

I passed by a guy on 5th Avenue tonight selling pizza for 99 cents a slice. And the souvenir shop was selling 12 T-shirts for 10.99. Almost doesn't pay to wash them.

Former Idealist wrote:

Chicken outfit here went belly up this week, 1200 lost jobs.

Said the cost of feed was too high to stay in business.

If we can't afford to feed chickens, how we gonna feed people?

grits! hominy! polenta!
cut out the middle chicken

Vonbek777 wrote:

heat streak pronounced over on the news tonight, rain on the way maybe, some out west of us tonight! God works in mysterious ways.

indeed -- he smites the enemy and afflicts them with plagues and starvation, and ensures his chosen people prosper and reap the fat of the land and cleanse it of the infidels!

Mary wrote:

In any event, "industrial" production doesn't belong in the same 'graf as "subsistence farming".

I see your point, Mary, but I don't know if I completely agree. It's sort of the same thing, if you get down to actual activities. The main difference between western industrial farming and subsistence farming (to significantly over-simplify) is that subsistence farmers are short on capital. Since they have no capital, it's impossible to invest in their crop to increase productivity in any real sense. Since they have no capital (and local markets are slanted against farmer returns), they must hold back a significant portion of their product to feed their families. Since this retained product is subject to spoilage and pilferage, it's yet another dent into their overall output and well-being.

My impression from a few stories I've witnessed is that if they are able to access cheap credit and reasonably-priced inputs (genetics, fertilizers, irrigation pumps, etc), they can become recognizably 'industrialized' in the span of only a year or two.

azurite wrote:

Not a sure outcome if you include nuclear power in "alternative energy" category

No, I do not. The Japanese situation has been very distressing for our family, btw. And it is ongoing, despite the lack of coverage here. I very much appreciate that the people on this blog still pay attention to it.

Oji wrote:

I very much appreciate that the people on this blog still pay attention to it.

How can you not, why the doomsday clock isn't a second away...well don't get me started.

Oji wrote:

Yes, status of women is key.

Yessssss. And I've practised what I preach - to my wife, my sister, my "sisters", and my nieces and my "nieces" ( No not like that ). {Mom, mom-figures, grandma ? that fades into memory - probably not though -well being kids yanno. } And I do it not for some altruistic motive, strategic motive, moral imperative - they are just fun people to be with. As I hope, no know, they think of me.

I wish more people did. The status of women is a key.

noob goldberg wrote:

My impression from a few stories I've witnessed is that if they are able to access cheap credit and reasonably-priced inputs (genetics, fertilizers, irrigation pumps, etc), they can become recognizably 'industrialized' in the span of only a year or two.

This whole linear, accounting profits-first system is so doomed.
As primitive and unappealing as it is, subsistence farming has stood the test of time. Parts of China have been farmed continuously for 8,000 years, yet are now being ruined by industrial farming within a couple generations. Sad.

YOGI, I'm going to walk out side the door.

Wave will you (!)

noob goldberg wrote:

Broiler chicken production, on the other hand, converts feed at a 1:1.6 ratio last I checked. That's 1kg of meat for 1.6kg of feed. It doesn't get a whole lot more efficient than that.

Almost unbelievably good efficiency.

But have you ever really thought about the term "Broiler Chicken"?
I mean, I got nothing against chicken. The Mrs. and I were discussing marinade recipes over dinner. One of the wine clubs just sent a neat new recipe. But "Broiler Chicken"? Like it's a breed or something? "I'm raisin' up broiler chickens". Sounds like a George Carlin line.

In reality, I'm too chicken to buy an M3.

skk wrote:

The status of women is a key.

Some day the world will wise up. When women are happy, EVERYBODY happy.

Feckless Ness wrote:

I know this is crazy talk, but it almost sounds like the investor class is deliberately plundering the masses.

I have a strong suspicion this is the case.

sm_landlord wrote:

But "Broiler Chicken"? Like it's a breed or something? "I'm raisin' up broiler chickens". Sounds like a George Carlin line.

Bred us up some nice Debt Consumers -- we've been breedin' em for decades, quite successfully.

bearly wrote:

DOW 10K hats again tomorrow?

Tomorrow will be a bumper day...look at Nvidia's earnings. More like Dow 12K.

Feckless Ness wrote:

It's also possible to eat nothing but raw plants and have the strength and stamina of a teenager at any age.

People make that claim, but I've never seen anyone pull it off.

What is happiness?

sm_landlord wrote:

recent (pre-2007) rise in US fertility rates.

More effective and more widely available fertility drugs would be my guess.

splat wrote:

Diamonds ?

Fleeting pleasure at best...just as with any material object.

sm_landlord wrote:

Feckless Ness wrote:

It's also possible to eat nothing but raw plants and have the strength and stamina of a teenager at any age.

People make that claim, but I've never seen anyone pull it off.

google Storm Talifero.

Oji wrote:

People in lower classes tend to use less energy (smaller homes, fly less, drive less, etc..), and would benefit.

Sure. The poor don't drive pickups or old beat up gas guzzlers. And they drive more.

Feckless Ness wrote:

More effective and more widely available fertility drugs would be my guess.

Rise in back alley secret cloning ? I wasn't prepared to have my perfect DNA watered down by the barbaric methods of traditional reproduction.

Actually.. a CFO I used to work for had 3 boys who seriously looked like clones of himself. I was working for a biotech at the time and was sure there was some kind of illegal cloning going on
~splat

sm_landlord wrote:

But "Broiler Chicken"? Like it's a breed or something?

It is indeed the term for a meat bird. And they (Cornish-Rocks) are, without a doubt, the stupidest animals ever bred by humans. They bear no discernible mental relation to the Plymouth Rock that you might imagine a chicken to be.

Anyway, lots of good chat but I really gotta run. mp, you're right that the setup you saw was expensive; I've never got to use auto-steer, but now many of the prairie guys bug me on their blackberries when they're bored on one of their long stretches. They've got too much time on their hands between turns.

Feckless Ness wrote:

Is that true for Brazil as well? A coworker told me how expensive everything is there - many times what we pay - yet they manufacture domestically and their production costs must be much lower than ours. Cheap labor, resource rich - yet their goods are astronomically high.

Brazil has huge import quotas, massive poverty, and widespread unemployment.
They're trying to pull themselves up by their bootstraps with the the import quotas, have been for years, and are paying with poverty and high prices.

azurite wrote:

Can't find a copy of the pledge but apparently it had language indicating the black children were better off when they & their parents were slaves

Ah, the classic socialist defense of slavery.

Vonbek777 wrote:

it is marginalization and an excuse to drive a wedge and power struggle between the sexes.

And the foundation of a large part of capitalism and almost all of marketing. Why do you hate 'Merica? What's wrong with a little dehumanization in the interest of money?

What a gracious reply! Thank you.

Feckless Ness wrote:

Feeling valued. Having purpose. Having people in her life who are loving and supportive. Feeling listened to and heard.

"In place of the Dark Lord you will set up a Queen. And I shall not be dark, but beautiful and terrible as the Morning and the Night! Fair as the Sea and the Sun and the Snow upon the Mountain! Dreadful as the Storm and the Lightning! Stronger than the foundations of the earth. All shall love me and despair!"

My wife watched that line in LoTR turned to me and said.. "yup that about sums it up. The one thing Tolkien got right about women."
~splat

The poor people I saw sleeping on the sidewalks and on park benches tonight would sleep in a car if they had one.

Vonbek777 wrote:

I'm sorry I was born with this extra empathy organ and a I care birthmark...

Surgery can help, along with this:

Too weird? Guess it's too busy??

splat wrote:

My wife watched that line in LoTR turned to me and said.. "yup that about sums it up. The one thing Tolkien got right about women."

Glory Road, Empress of the Known Universe...Heinlein had some pieces right too. But you think Eowyn or perhaps Luthien weren't accurate portrayals of women? My wife says Heinlein, Tolkien, and Austen cover most of the archetypes and we are missing quite a few currently.

Vonbek777 wrote:

And what makes a woman happy?

Depends on the woman, it's not as if women are any more monolithic in their desires, wants, needs, what they enjoy then men are beyond the basics of water, food, shelter.

Bob Dobbs wrote:

But a lot of the workers just get dropped off.

Poverty has all kinds of little hidden costs to one's time, energy, and self-esteem (if you let it).

steinly wrote:

rather something she said a few years ago about biblical literalism,
including " "The Lord says: Be submissive, wives. You are to be submissive to your husbands,"

Always have wondered how some of those lines are dependent on the translation used and how accurate some of the more popular translations are.

ResistanceIsFeudal wrote:

Even my topic is less of a conversational landmine than this one.

Okay magic squares? Any in your Illuminati game?

noob goldberg wrote:

And they (Cornish-Rocks) are, without a doubt, the stupidest animals ever bred by humans. They bear no discernible mental relation to the Plymouth Rock that you might imagine a chicken to be.

Just as the most popular egg-layers, tend to be short-lived high egg producers. A friend who keeps chickens for the eggs has spent some time searching out breeders who offer chicks of breeds other than those most desired by industrial ag, she's fine w/lower production, longer life, overall healthier bird. It's from her I learned that chickens will eat just about anything.

Vonbek777 wrote:

But you think Eowyn or perhaps Luthien weren't accurate portrayals of women? My wife says Heinlein, Tolkien, and Austen cover most of the archetypes and we are missing quite a few currently.

Interesting.. my wife's take on Tolkien was the female characters a bit too idealized 'male perspective of women'. She did like Galadriel
~splat

Oji wrote:

Not to mention, replace vehicles less often--

Depends, I've seen people in my area who seem to keep getting different vehicles--they can't afford much so they end up buying beater vehicle after beater vehicle, few last for that long.

Feckless Ness wrote:

More effective and more widely available fertility drugs would be my guess.

Anyone else notice the jump in fraternal-twin births the last few years?

All of the increase in the overall twin birth rate in 2008 from 2007 was among births to women aged 30 and over; rates were up 2 percent for women in their 30s and 7 percent for women aged 40 and over. In 2008, 6 percent of all births to women aged 40–44 and 22 percent of births to women aged 45 and over was a twin, compared with less than 2 percent of births to teenaged mothers (Table 26)

From page 13: http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr59/nvsr59_01.pdf

There's another quite surprising stat in this doc: Almost 1/3 of all US births are now cesarean!

1 currency now -yogi wrote:

http://paperandstring.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Jaume-Plensa-Echo-cropped.jpg 

That reminded me of this:
Pictures & Photos from Blade Runner - IMDb

I don't understand all of the car/truck buying stuff. If people took care of their cars the way airplanes are cared for, we'd all be driving '57 Chevys.

I buy a new vehicle maybe every 15 years. Out of 3 vehicles, we've only been stuck on the road three times since 1992.

It's called maintenance and it pays off.

edit:
I should add that on two of the breakdowns, it was minor items. One was a transmission.

Around New York: Madison Square Art 2011: Jaume Plensa's "Echo" | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

picosec wrote:

There's another quite surprising stat in this doc: Almost 1/3 of all US births are now cesarean!

C-section rate in U.S. climbs to all-time high

convenience of MD/woman is one of the listed reasons. No info on how US rate compares w/rate in say, the EU area. Don't know if cost is an issue as well.

Feckless Ness wrote:

Diabetes is reversible. It doesn't have to be a life sentence.

Certainly not type one, and doubtful about type two...

sm_landlord wrote:

Fighting a problem like that now. Need a VLCM for a 1995 Lincoln. Dealers say: "too bad, too sad, no parts for you." Mechanic won't buy the part, because he refuses to do business with out-of-state vendors who might not take returns. Now I have to chase down the damn part and take it to the stupid mechanic.

You're a computer guy. There are all kinds of internet resources. Hell, I even found a guy who could repair/reprogram the computer modules on my wife's car. There's a big "underground" out there.

mp wrote:

You're a computer guy. There are all kinds of internet resources. Hell, I even found a guy who could repair/reprogram the computer modules on my wife's car. There's a big "underground" out there.

I found a part in Pennsylvania using google, but the lazy-ass mechanic won't buy it, because he doesn't want to take the risk of buying it out of state. So now I have to buy the part and take it to him, 60 miles from here where the car broke down. Meanwhile, he wants me to get the car towed off his lot because it's taking up space.

That's putting it charitably. Having read the usual suspects by Tolkein and Lewis --and no stomach for their more obscure tracts-- I'd characterize their characterizations of wymmin scions in the kingdom of christ as plain creepy.

Wow.
plensa sculpture - Google Search

Vonbek777 wrote:

Must drag my self to bed. Been fun everyone.

Me too

azurite wrote:

they can't afford much so they end up buying beater vehicle after beater vehicle, few last for that long.

....you might find under examination, many males now have no drivers licenses. Through too many DUIs, child support issues, previous out of state warrant, etc., no licenses are issued, thereby no insurance nor car. Old beaters, bicycles, and -50cc scooters require no license and if towed, no great loss. Our town is full of peops without licenses.

flaminia wrote:

It's an inconvenient natural phenomenon and makes for some interesting disconnection.

Physiology is the root of much psychology...

mp wrote:

Fortunately, we have a truck and trailer, so we can pick the vehicle up ourselves. I haven't used a tow service in donkey's years.
Of course, we've got the space to park all that and so forth.

I have the space, here. I guess I should look into buying a flat-bed car trailer.

flaminia wrote:

Oh, c'mon. A lot traces back to the simple fact that it takes less time for a male to reach orgasm than a female. That's not some evil conspiratorial social construct. It's an inconvenient natural phenomenon and makes for some interesting disconnection.

Like I said, I was born with an empathy organ and a I care tattoo...for some reason I care that my wife gets off as much as I do, and she actually enjoys sex...imagine that...and we take turns with whose on top and wears the pants...but yes we're strange ducks. Breaking sexual myths and taboos were just as important to us as the tome of letters we wrote each other in our long distance phase. Just another aspect of knowing someone. I wanted someone to know and know me...

azurite wrote:

No info on how US rate compares w/rate in say, the EU area.

factor of 2 variation, from under 15% in netherlands to over 30% in italy

Black Star Ranch wrote:

you might find under examination, many males now have no drivers licenses. Through too many DUIs, child support issues, previous out of state warrant, etc., no licenses are issued, thereby no insurance nor car

Yes, that too. Mostly DUIIs around here (or rather DWS and then DWR--driving while revoked). The area is starting to have a better (limited but improved) bus system & I hope that that will give some of the active alcoholics & others driving uninsured/etc. more of a choice. Other than the ones who will say they're entitled to drive no matter how many people they've injured while driving uninsured. Just haven't killed anyone yet.

mp wrote:

And the capability provides a lot of peace of mind. If someone breaks down somewhere, all they've got to do is "phone home" and you can be on your way. No screwing around with finding someone, risking them screwing something up, etc, etc.

I completely get it. That's how I was raised. I just have to get used to the idea of my time having no value. My dad and I used to argue about that a lot.

But, hey, it's fun, if you don't have to do it very often.

azurite wrote:

Don't know if cost is an issue as well.

longer hospital stays after c section, i think.

mp wrote:

I've never concerned myself with that. I just try to use my time productively.

Right. Learning something new to store on your mental shelf of what can go wrong and how to resolve it. Or simply how to do something. Not a waste of time.

Mary wrote:

Not from where I'm sitting.

Roger that.

sleep tight, vonbek