States are probably in more trouble than cities.
States will withhold shared funding and cities will file BK.

Although no matter how much the states keep in funding - it won't be enough.
There will be massive job cuts for all states, cities and counties.
Many services will be cut or stopped, starting of course with kids, elderly and the handicaped.

scone wrote:

Clearly Bond Girl disagrees with Whitney (I'll side with Bond Girl). - CR
Me too. Or I would if I understood her posts. Her übernerdiness is well beyond my pay grade.

Bond Girl has one thing wrong however. She cites the supposedly low level of indebtedness of most US states and municipalities. The debt she uses is out of context. If California only had California's debt we'd be rich beyond even Sacramento's avarice.

Rob Dawg wrote:

If California only had California's debt we'd be rich beyond even Sacramento's avarice.

I don't get it.
Explain please.

That is the Arizona model. We will steal, beg, and borrow at the state level, and the municipalities will bear the burden, and some bonds will go unpaid. Wilbur Ross will lose some money insuring that dreck, but so be it.

I suspect the first big city in AZ to blow will be Glendale- their finances thanks to the stadium deals is in pathetic shape.

As for the nation, let there be layoffs!!!

Galtistan is an anarchosyndicalist collective run with a rotating executive council....

Someday this war's gonna end...

Rob Dawg wrote:

If California only had California's debt we'd be rich beyond even Sacramento's avarice.

Bell, Oxnard, Vallejo (sp?) are already in the "bad debt" camp. Who else is in it?

nova wrote:

It always sucks to be poor.

The system seems to be set up so that once you become poor, you stay poor.

I am confused and that is probably no surprise to many of you. What I can't understand is that is they any coinnection between the governments pension obligations and its bond obligation, If there is it would seem that according to many and perhaps Bond Girl too Mish is sounding the trumpet over pension problems at least a year away and the inference is probably more. In other words Mish don't get them in a twist. If Mish is correct would not a bankruptcy pull down the bonds too. In other words does the pension problem as seen by Mish impact on the bond problem and if not why not? I told you I am confused. Thank you.

(I'll side with Bond Girl).

Mom, he's trading on insider information ! Cos while http://www.businesspundit.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/zzwhitney.jpg is public information the other isn't.

On the other hand this is also public information: Meredith Whitney Recycling ... : Meredith Whitney Husband Photos, Wallpapers, Galleries -

Hmm.. given that I'd...

I side with Meredith Whitney although don't think it will as severe.

$2tn debt crisis threatens to bring down 100 US cities | Business | The Guardian
New Jersey governor Chris Christie summarised the problem succinctly:
"We spent too much on everything. We spent money we didn't have. We borrowed money just crazily. The credit card's maxed out, and it's over. We now have to get to the business of climbing out of the hole. We've been digging it for a decade or more. We've got to climb now, and a climb is harder."

and CR does NOT even mention this problem in his post
State Pension Problems Are Billions Worse Than Advertised

California is the worst state in absolute terms. In per capita terms, Illinois appears to be in the worst shape. However that statement does not factor in all of New Jersey's pension plans. Then again, the Biggs report does not include all of Illinois' public pension plans either. The mess everywhere is far bigger than it looks.

Basket cases = CA, IL, NY, NJ, OH, TX

Close to basket cases = FL, PA

Hark! Hubster Dude has got the generator working, just in case it really is Snowpocalypse!

scone wrote:

Hubster Dude has got the generator working, just in case it really is Snowpocalypse!

Very good!!!!
Hope you don't need it, very glad it works just in case you do.

some will say the Fed will bailout states like CA, IL, NY

Yeah right when....

Fed Treasury Holdings: $1,000,341,000,000 | zero hedge

$24.5 Trillion In US National Debt, $144 Trillion In Unfunded Liabilities In... 2015 | zero hedge

And most importantly why the hell should taxpayers in the other 42 states pay for these basket case and close to basket cases that have allowed their state and local gubmint citizens to live large for past 30 yrs.

"Contained" for whom? Goldman Sachs, maybe.

The rest of us are going to drown.

There won't be any domino, as the Fed will step in with Tarp 3, to bail out yet another class of bond holders

If bonds collapes in a waterfall effect, not even GS is safe.

any reason self-evident.org uses SSL encryption?

Citizen AllenM wrote:

That loss of income and wealth will be a very interesting effect.

They will make awkward introductions as they join us in the tent camps?

I still get the feeling that large number of quasi-state bonds are papering over their shortfalls with creative accounting. Just hoping and praying it will work out before they have to report how bad it really is.
Will 2011 be a big enough bumper crop of tax payers money to make that happen is the real question for me at least.

km4 wrote:

And most importantly why the hell should taxpayers in the other 42 states pay for these basket case and close to basket cases that have allowed their state and local gubmint citizens to live large for past 30 yrs.

Because when the time came to make a decision to be an independent state, or suck off the teet of big govt EVERY STATE chose to suck on that teet.

Show me the one state that decided to make its own drinking law, and turned down the federal funding that required the states set the law at the recommended 21 yrs old.

Taking from a national pool of money also means they are on the hook in bad times too. sorry.

Kauai_Kahuna wrote:

Nemo knows about security and attempts to ensure his site is secure?

azurite wrote:

the city can "find" enough money to continue a 1 1/2 year state subsidy of 4 commercial flights to PDX. At this time, the subsidy comes to a little over $110/per passenger/per flight.
The 10 passenger plane (and you don't go through any security procedures to board) carries an "average" of 3.5 passengers/flight.

Whos brother in law owns that airline/plane?
What a total waste.

mp wrote:

I can see that.

Be sure to vote on what to name the sequel. What should the title of the sequel be? | Hoocoodanode?

mp wrote:

I can easily see a bunch of pissed off Republicans refusing to offer the guarantee, the containment.

Why would the Republicans be pissed off? You mean House Republicans will stonewall the Senate Republicans?

yagij, thanks. Coffee has not kicked in yet.

then I gotta watch the Giants

Basel Too worte:

but in terms of actual direct compensation, Harvard endowment fund managers are employees of the school. and there is no question that the endowment structure could not exist without massive government subsidies.

Of course, if it violated the 90-10 standard, they should face compensation caps too.
Whether private Harvard should lose non-profit tax status is certainly topical, but distinct from the issue of whether for-profit colleges should keep large government subsidies.

yagij wrote:

Why would the Republicans be pissed off?

Because they're always pissed off.

Mike how does one check a weather buoy. Thank you.

Tommy Vu wrote:

This is Amerika. Laws mean nothing

Filtering mechanism creating barriers of entry into the real crime syndicates, which don't like competition.

nincompoop wrote:

Mike how does one check a weather buoy. Thank you.

Marine Weather Forecast and Fishing Charts | BUOYWEATHER.COM

nincompoop - Mike how does one check a weather buoy. Thank you.

They are almost always on some website.
National Data Buoy Center

Here is Hawaii's.
NDBC - Hawaiian Islands Recent Marine Data

Radiofax Charts - Boston

CR, let me answer questions 6 through 1 for you: "everything is going to be fine". There. I made your job easier for you.

ResistanceIsFeudal wrote:

Anonymous johns at that - just another wallet

At least our whores will let us keep our johnsons afterwards... I hope (h/t mp)

josap wrote:

Whos brother in law owns that airline/plane?
What a total waste.

When this town & another on the coast (the small towns filed for the state transportation grant jointly) initially asked for bids from airlines to handle these flights, the process down here was so suspect that (due to pressure from the city commissioners in the other town--which had just gotten through a political influence scandal) the bidding process was redone. A different airline other than the one initially favored by a few members of my city's council was chosen. Since then the airport manager has been fired (after a previous mess during which he was placed on administrative leave--and the city manager left & a city council member quit early after a closed council session), & last I heard was suing the city for unjust termination, and the hired airline has violated one provision of its agreement (one that some think was kinda important) but the city's attorneys had ever so intelligently failed to include a monetary PENALTY for violating/failing to comply with this provision . . . ..

It's nobody's bro-in-law, but when the city council (in closed sessions) decided to buy the stupid airport several years ago (2007 or 2008) so it wouldn't go under, I thought it was mostly because they wanted to make sure they & their well off friends had a place to keep their planes & helicopters and socialize. Even better if the taxpayers in this city of about 12,000-13,000 subsidized their costs.

Just before the then airport manager was placed on administrative leave, a FAA guy from PDX came down, took a little tour of the airport (it's a small general aviation airport) and told me what a "well run airport" it was.

My school district will have an administrator getting over 430K/yr salary, 13M in pension

Click the table to see a larger version.
Make sure you're sitting down.
Seriously.

$887,925,790.00
You read this right. The top 100 retirees, by themselves, will cost Illinois taxpayers nearly one billion dollars.

RevolutionWillN... wrote:

My school district will have an administrator getting over 430K/yr salary, 13M in pension

Why do you think we're keeping Wal*Street around? We all need someone to point at so we can get away with our own smaller scale heists.

nincompoop wrote:

Mike how does one check a weather buoy. Thank you

Follow this link - this one happens to by to buoy number 44025 which is located about 25 miles south of the middle of long island.

Marine Buoy Forecast : Weather Underground

You can use this link Marine Weather : Weather Underground to select a region and once you do that you can drill down to forecasts for both nearshore and offshore. Within the drill down area you will see blue dots that when you put your mouse pointer over them will display a number for that buoy - click on it and it will give you a variety of weather and sea state data.

Have fun.

EDIT I see AB and KK beat me to it. That's what I get for responding before reading thru to the end.

That should buy a bag or two of dogfood.

So what?

Isn't it obvious that obligations beyond reality won't be paid?

When we Weimar, and it is when in my mind, no longer if, we will settle these with money worth darn near nothing. Because the folks in charge think they can kick the can a little further.

Someday this war's gonna end...

ResistanceIsFeudal wrote:

Unless they're union, in which case the administrator deserves all he can chisel

I was going to go there 'cause I've already been tagged as a shill and apologist. I'm just thankful I wasn't tagged a Conservative and/or Liberal!
.
You would think that voters would start bristling anytime someone talks about Education or "For The Children", but we aren't there yet. Either we have too many children, too many people's salaries tied to children, or too much time to obsess about other people's children. We can only hope those IL pensions will get axed and all those poor administrators will get only to keep their millions in salary over the years of their employment.

josap wrote:

If that didn't reek of corruption and kickbacks, I don't know what does. No biggie 'cause I'm starting to side with AllenM. Hello, Weimar, here we come! Just like where we started from!

Some municipalities are definitely doing better with hotel tax (transient occupancy tax) and sales tax. Some new businesses are filling the holes that Mervyn's and American automakers left, but I still see a lot of small businesses and strip mall businesses going under.

From the raw numbers, the Illinois pension looks to be the worst of all the states, with NJ and CA also in a big hole. The politics in each state will determine who will pay for the pension losses (pensioners or tax payers or some combination). It looks like NJ is going to force some losses on pensioners.

I read that linked Vanity Fair article. Wow. Thanks skk--think it was him.

Parts of it sound like Pavel.

Comrade Canadie... wrote:

Look for some very creative ways (printing) to literally paper over any cracks if and when they appear.

QE3 will be for municipal debt, is my take.

ResistanceIsFeudal wrote:

Unless they're union, in which case the bloke deserves all he can chisel

Always look for the Union Liable.

Rob Dawg wrote:

Always look for the Union Liable

troll

Rob Dawg wrote:

She cites the supposedly low level of indebtedness of most US states and municipalities. The debt she uses is out of context.

and who amongst us would posit no cascade effect, pin action to CDS, after CDS leaned against another, inextricably woven to a fabric stretched to the point of tensile strength

Read the article.

Thanks but no thanks. I doubt that Vanity Fair knows a monastery from a mezze.

I saw True Grit last night. Thought it was pretty good.
As to the muni and state bond defaults, the Fed gov
will print,print, print, with the appropriate string attached
so that power flows to DC. That is one stimulus that
will stave off deflation. If they don't, Katie bar the door.

fully recognized by Mr Market, and then when all the little chicken littles have crowded the exits will the slippery foxes sneak in for a fill of golden eggs.

Not a criticism of your economics, but is there a mixed metaphor award - like a plaque or a cup or something?

volker the viking wrote:

Rob Dawg wrote:

She cites the supposedly low level of indebtedness of most US states and municipalities. The debt she uses is out of context.

and who amongst us would posit no cascade effect, pin action to CDS, after CDS leaned against another, inextricably woven to a fabric stretched to the point of tensile strength

California may only have "California" debt service amounts Sold/Not Yet Repaid: ~$65 billion. , Approved/Not Yet Sold: ~$54 billion but they are also responsible for ~20% of the Fed $12T and its residents are also responsible for their local municipal debt and all this in an already crushing tax environment.

Any excessive failure and as you say; cascade contagion. And make no mistake, the Pimpcos of the world will use any market stress to rip off the rest of the market. Never waste a crisis.

Oh, no, don't be prejudiced, it's really interesting.

pavel.chichikov wrote:

Read the article.

Thanks but no thanks.

OK, since it directly leads to:

I doubt that Vanity Fair knows a monastery from a mezze.

No doubting Thomas ( one of the lesser known ( wonder why ) disciples - who can name all 12 ? ) here - no siree.

For the others: here's the article again ( does VF have -ve connotations - how weird - its not as if we are buying Playboy for the "articles" is it ? )

Beware of Greeks Bearing Bonds | Business | Vanity Fair

And we had a Greek who was in the commentariat who I asked to critique that article - and s|he said - yeah that's pretty much how it is.

Rob Dawg wrote:

the Pimpcos of the world will use any market stress to rip off the rest of the market

that's their evil plan, and since they have the biggest book in the world, they can pretty much engineer the event

skk wrote:

No doubting Thomas ( one of the lesser known ( wonder why ) disciples - who can name all 12 ? ) here - no siree.

Thirteen. It's like the Beatles.

I'm not going to read an article that from the beginning tells me what I already knew, calls Jesus Prayer beads "prayer beads", and doesn't go to Mount Athos to attend a Mass.

pavel.chichikov wrote:

But there's a light at the end of the alley. I think it's an oncoming garbage truck.

Sometimes it's just New Jersey.

John Stewart

Rob Dawg wrote:

I'm not a stupid as everyone keeps saying

of course you're not

It isn't clear to me from the article that the monks actually did anything morally wrong, mostly the appearance of impropriety, and the Greek gov't & society is such a morass of corruption that you can't exist there without being morally wrong. Kinda like the Soviet Union, actually.

I think you are fixating on trivialities and missing a good article.

Rob Dawg wrote:

Sunrise Earth : Discovery HD Theater
Better than blood pressure medicine.

Those are awesome.

volker the viking wrote:

it was an allusion to Edward G. Robinson in Soylent Green

So was the reference to "medicine."

Rob Dawg wrote:

Thirteen. It's like the Beatles.

Jeez ! I googled it before I said it - I'm a doubting Thomas for sure.. and I got this - no not from the wiki, from a JesusMary site:
Who were the twelve (12) disciples / apostles of Jesus Christ?

“These are the names of the twelve apostles: first, Simon (who is called Peter) and his brother Andrew; James son of Zebedee, and his brother John; Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus; Simon the Zealot and Judas Iscariot, who betrayed Him.” The Bible also lists the twelve disciples/apostles in Mark 3:16-19 and Luke 6:13-16. A comparison of the three passages shows a couple of minor differences in the names. It seems that Thaddaeus was also known as “Judas, son of James” (Luke 6:16) and Lebbaeus (Matthew 10:3). Simon the Zealot was also known as Simon the Canaanite (Mark 3:18). Judas Iscariot, who betrayed Jesus, was replaced in the twelve apostles by Matthias (see Acts 1:20-26). Some Bible teachers view Matthias as an “invalid” apostle and believe that Paul was God's choice to replace Judas Iscariot as the twelfth apostle.

Maybe I should have trusted the wiki - which adds on Barnabas, Andronicus, Junia, Silas, Timothy and Apollos. ( although it goes on to add a dozen or more for later centuries )

But I thought - wiki, yeah right what do they know.. lets stick to what's from the horses mouth ( and confirmation bias of course ) .

So, who's the 13th then ? Jesus doesn't count ( but he does save) - that's reflexive.

All in good humor of course.

Rob Dawg wrote:

So was the reference to "medicine."

no, just Edw. G.

pavel.chichikov wrote:

I'm not going to read an article that from the beginning tells me what I already knew, calls Jesus Prayer beads "prayer beads", and doesn't go to Mount Athos to attend a Mass.

HA ! you did read it! Gotc ha..

skk wrote:

So, who's the 13th then ?

Matthias.

skk wrote:

Some Bible teachers view Matthias as an “invalid” apostle and believe that Paul was God's choice to replace Judas Iscariot as the twelfth apostle.

Sounds like the MicroSoft apostle.

a gaping hole in the U.S. regulatory structure

You might call it that.

Regulatory failure may very well be the proximate cause of the crisis.

pavel.chichikov wrote:

Regulatory failure may very well be the proximate cause of the crisis.

I'm of the opinion that Regulatory Enhancement may be the better term. It was hands-off by design for eight long years.

some investor guy wrote:

I have heard similar stories from multiple sources . Meredith came in to discuss her rersearch with a major fim hich has a big muni research staff.

After several hours, they were convinced she didn't know what she was talking about.

Yeah well, on the inside of the big gov machine, I wouldn't put a penny in most of the muni's in Arizona.

Period.

Big staff or not.

Finances are a wreck, a total wreck, with debt on top of debt.

Someday this war's gonna end...

pavel.chichikov wrote:

Could you prove it in court?

It's already been proven in the court of public opinion, . . . excluding of course those who only view Faux News.

Citizen AllenM wrote:

Finances are a wreck, a total wreck, with debt on top of debt.

Yep, and I think they used up all the accounting tricks, push backs, pull forwards, check the couch cushions they can manage. Cut services big time, raise fees big time, beg for tax increases or raise if a vote not needed, is what 2011 will be all about.

I wonder how many of us here feel anxiety about their own personal financial circumstances. I'm not at all suggesting a poll. But perhaps such personal concerns might very well influence the mood in this forum.

pavel.chichikov wrote:

But perhaps such personal concerns might very well influence the mood in this forum.

Of course they do, how could it be any other way? We all see the world from our own small viewing stand first. Sure we can see larger landscapes, but those are colored by our own background lighting.

Cut services big time, raise fees big time, beg for tax increases or raise if a vote not needed, is what 2011 will be all about.

Big trouble for the low wage earners. Gas 3.10 at the pump in DC this morning. Trouble right there with what one might call a fee and a tax. Cuts net income to the bone and beyond for low wage people.

For those thinking DC is interested in further bailouts...

D.C. & Mortgages | zero hedge

Two seemingly unrelated developments in the nations mortgage mess this past week. They both point to how difficult it will be to bring some stability back to the system. I am wondering if they are connected.

If you’re a conservative and you want to see a smaller role for government the CBO proposal on mortgages is the ticket for you. I can’t help but connect the dots between Shelby’s "no" vote on Thursday and the CBO report from the same day.

pavel.chichikov wrote:

I wonder how many of us here feel anxiety about their own personal financial circumstances.

I suspect that when things "get bad" I will be screwed financially. There will be some event in the future which will essentially steal the remaining loot from the savers to "save society". It must happen. The nobility can spread their loot around the globe, the peasants can't.

pavel.chichikov wrote:

Could you prove it in court?

Civil or criminal court?
civil - yes

I'm living both lives.

From limping along with my law practice in Miami, and listening to all the horrible stories, to returning here where the house is paid for, the credit card bills are nearly always paid before any interest accrues, and can pretty much buy what I like. At this point I would like less clutter!

The cognitive dissonance is weird.

Which is worse ... wrote:

Just a question....what is stopping California from just defaulting?

Inertia and the perception that there's still loot and sheeple to shear and a feeling that there's always packing up the kids and escaping. There's also 10m here who aren't exposed to the consequences because they are consumers not producers and another 5m who are above being touched.

There will be some event in the future which will essentially steal the remaining loot from the savers to "save society".

It would be foolish to deny the possibility.

pavel.chichikov - I wonder how many of us here feel anxiety about their own personal financial circumstances.

I for one who is doing very well, (on track at least) am very anxious over my personal finances. I have been poor, working class and what most would call middle class and I realize how easily I can fall all the way down again.
My response for the last four to five years has been to eliminate debt just because I no longer trusted the banks to play fair. Then I started saving like a miser. Getting no return, but I have finally gotten to or above the levels of savings that is recommended by most people. Some are just far too extreme, and seems to think everyone needs 10 million to retire. Who knows, they may be right.

Basel Too wrote:

thin line between affordability and assistance programs...

Wonder how many of the unemployed took the loans from the gov to pay the mortgage for up to 2 years. Full recourse, ugly payment plan later, lots of paper work to fill out, do many qualify?

Good piece and hopefully a real not fake

Something along the lines described by the CBO is coming. Barney Frank does not have the influence or the votes to stop it. Strong hands like Shelby will get their way. While the actual outcome is cloudy there is one conclusion you can take to the bank. Mortgages are going to be more difficult to get and they will cost more in twelve months. That will hurt, but it is a good thing.

And IMO a slap in the face to Ben 'the QE pusher' Bernank

"Assessed taxable property values in Nye County dropped from $1.4 billion in the final tax roll for 2009, to $862 million for 2010. That’s the lowest level since the 2002-03 fiscal year."

shucks darn - my property taxes will decrease. It's about time.

Nothing found for News Property-values-plunge Comment-page-1 #comment-11149

Kauai_Kahuna wrote:

Who knows, they may be right.

If the nobility can use the Fed to create inflation (hidden or real) to force the peasants to payoff their debts your "safe investments" might mean you will need 10 million to retire. The method used to steal will be very simple and invisible to the peasants (as it must be). The predator humans will eat as many of the prey as they need to survive.

km4 wrote:

Mortgages are going to be more difficult to get and they will cost more in twelve months. That will hurt, but it is a good thing.

And housing values will go where?
And how many more will be underwater?
And how many more jobs lost?
And how many more homes lost?
Pushing values where?

I wish everyone with a mortgage would just stop paying in January. Then we can get this over with after a few years of GDII

skk wrote:

O gawd here we go again -

Perhaps you missed the context. Tommy Vu, a well know long time Obama basher (who claims to have been an Obama supporter up until two months BEFORE he was inaugurated), had to bash Obama in a rather gratuitous fashion in response to my comment about regulatory inaction under the previous administration.

My response to which you took exception was to point out to him (while ignoring his gratuitous bashing) that the Republicans in Congress still did all they could over the past two years to complain about anything remotely connected with regulation of any kind.

This board has long been populated by Republicans and their supporters. Bitch, bitch, bitch is all they do, perhaps all they can do. Pardon me for pointing out who caused the Great Recession from we are now emerging.

BTW, in response to CR's blog post, Obama's ARRA is looking better every day. It just wasn't large enough to get us all the way back, but then the Republican senators whose votes were needed to pass it at all put a hard cap on the number of dollars.

These are just the facts. Sorry if you find them upsetting.

sportsfan wrote:

It's not Dodd-Frank outlawed them. It's called regulation, not extermination.

TBTF means only one thing. And regulation isn't relevant for a TBTF anything. When something is TBTF other force are at work.

TJ and The Bear wrote:

affordability would be a reality if it weren't for all the government assistance.

Are we talking about housing, higher education, or health care?

pavel.chichikov wrote:

Does anyone actually know how to climb out of this trench?

At this point it is so complicated, I think we might have to just start over. Although doing that is a complete disaster as well.

WASS

Kauai_Kahuna wrote:

Really, I thought most posters here were uber-liberal?

The Red and Blue Team true-believers both feel under siege. I think the site tends to be weighted toward the Blue Team but overall pretty balanced.

lawyerliz wrote:

Just how are they going to be more difficult to get?

Florida is weird. People can get mortgages in KaLi.

sportsfan wrote:

This board has long been populated by Republicans and their supporters.

This board is overwhelming left-of-center, as political compass scores have shown. There's just a few of us Libertarian types holding the middle ground.

Guess it's just tough for you to have any perspective when you're so far left everyone else is to your right.

lawyerliz - Most posters here are undescribable.

That fit's me only because I realize I have been kept in the dark and fed $hit for so long, I'm more confused than outraged.
So how is that mushroom diet working for everyone else here?

Everyone to the left of me is far left.

Everyone to the right of me is far right.

Isn't it obvious?

lawyerliz wrote:

Just how are [mortgages] going to be more difficult to get?
They are only letting one through once in a while in South Florida. Are they gonna make no mtges at all?

They can start taking back existing mortgages. Don't laugh. Think big picture of banks with ARMs and recasts as rates rise.

Guess you missed next month's article- tax rates to go up to stop shortfalls.

Wanna bet?

Someday this war's gonna end...

sportsfan wrote:

This board has long been populated by Republicans and their supporters

Really? I never had the feeling it was overly political in the spiteful ways many other blog comment sections can be. There is a debating of ideas here that is unlike any other blog I visit, but I think adding the label of 'republicans' vastly oversimplifies the types of people that inhabit this particular corner of the internet.
not

Sure, theres always some loud comment that you remember where one poster begins to personally attack the poster, instead of debating the ideas presented, but that is literally dwarfed by the much more intelligent conversation that I see here on a daily basis.

*Not really related to anything you said, just my .02 for the evening... now, wheres my and ?

josap wrote:

I think we will get austerity for our 2011 word

Financial Armageddon: "Do I Feed the Kids or Pay the Utilities?"

poic wrote:

I thought a nice Christmas would change things a bit. 2 days later I log on and same old same old.

Tell me what you want me to go, and I'll tell you where I want to go. Then when we get there, we can say that someone moved to the other side of the aisle. Deal?
.
Edit: Honestly, I'm not sure where you should put me. I say give 'em gay marriage and take away Federal fund mandates for things such a drinking limit and speed limits. Let the States vote for Senators again, and remove many Federal taxes and demand that Congress ask the state legislatures for extra funds if needed. Let the students eat a decent/good meal for breakfast and lunch. Have I alienated everyone yet?

yagij wrote:

Deal?

New or Fair?

RevolutionWillN... wrote:

Sure, theres always some loud comment that you remember where one poster begins to personally attack the poster, instead of debating the ideas presented, but that is literally dwarfed by the much more intelligent conversation that I see here on a daily basis.

That's all true. The vast majority of conversations in which I've participated on this board had little or nothing to do with politics.

I do remember those who have attacked me personally over the years, rather than respond to my points, and I no longer tolerate them.

i think we had a recession primarily caused by the end of consumer-credit bubble and resulting financial panic (Mad Max). TARP and a laundry list of other federal programs extinguished the financial panic, while ARRA offset some of the lack of final demand, thus creating the statistical recovery. but based on the inequality metrics, the rot is still there.

pavel,

Perhaps you ought to put up a poll with options based upon relative level of anxiety?

Basel Too wrote:

but based on the inequality metrics, the rot is still there.

Yeah, we've added astronomical debt to irreparable rot. Such a deal.

NOTaREALmerican wrote:

Is it really a recovery if it's completely fake?

Sure, my 401k is back up. My brother in law found a job and I spent too much at the mall.

On the not snarky side, people make judgements depending on their own small part of the universe.

sportsfan wrote:

You, Mr. Republican, are here every day to spout your remarks that I find invariably biased and often nasty. You are not in a position to lecture anyone about decorum.

Shall I repost your explicit permission that I do indeed have both standing and position?

You really don't see how the general tenor of HCN is liberal/left? THe compass scores don't convince you? There are a few republicans and a few more conservatives and a few more than that libertarian leaning types but en toto they are numerically overwhelmed by those further left.

wow, yagij, you want to give US America back to the Natives??

Just WOW...

yagij wrote:

I'm not surprised that the country cannot tackle these kinds of issues.

This country is over-polarized because nobody has had to decide NOT to spend on anything for along time. The debate isn't about spending or not it's about spending on your socialism or MY socialism. So, the polarized opinions are more about spite. Maybe if someday there are actual limits on how much the government can spend actual decisions will NEED to be made and people will realize what the actual topic is.

purple wrote:

Empire isn't cheap, 800 military bases strewn around the world and generations of wounded veterans.

I read a piece one time from the Charleston War College whose conclusion was that wars historically cost three times as much in the aftermath as in the fighting. This does not bode well for The Forever Wars.

purple wrote:

and think the problem is DMV workers and overpaid teachers

Who thinks that?
The district administrator in my local school district will have a 434K/yr salary, matched up with a pension by the taxpayers of this wonderful state of $13M, JUST FOR HIM.
Most teachers get paid along the same unconscionable spread of pay that exists in the private sector between the top ranks and their underlings, if not worse in many cases.
That one guys pension would pay for almost 1200 teachers. The district does not even have close to that many. Teachers are not the problem.

Yoringe wrote:

you want to give US America back to the Natives??

Well, most of the Natives are dead so when we return a 2nd time we can conquer it without all that bloody trail of tears stuff.

All right. I'll acknowledge what appears to be the consensus that HCN commenters are center-left.

The administrative costs are the biggest factor. Much the same problem as the private sector has. Those at the top get to decide how much to pay themselves and they work as a team to keep it that way.

*Yoringe wrote:

Yagij, i doubt the Modern day Pocahontas will let you in..*

If it is Califonia, there will a long environmental review process before you can move back in....

Rob Dawg wrote:

I'm concerned that the recession won't be sustainable.

"Concerned"? C'mon, Dawg, tell us what you REALLY feel.

p.s.: And yes, I noticed that you said "recession".

Maury the Credi... wrote:

wars historically cost three times as much in the aftermath as in the fighting. This does not bode well for The Forever Wars.

Cheaper to keep fighting.
How about not starting?????

NOTaREALmerican wrote:

This country is over-polarized because nobody has had to decide NOT to spend on anything for along time. The debate isn't about spending or not it's about spending on your socialism or MY socialism.

Which is how we traveled from allowing temporary income tax cuts to expire to more spending for both sides.

school districts should use the NFL revenue model: X% of revenue should goes towards teacher salaries.

administrators want shiny buildings and more subcommittees? fine, it'll just reduce their share of the pie. instead, we have districts like mine, where over 50% of the operating budget is for administration and debt service...

I think the failure of Republican policies in the years to come will cause the more centrist types to lean more left as things get ever worse

my 2 cents -

barfly wrote:

Republican policies in the years to come will cause more the centrist types to lean more left as things get ever worse

wow, just wow

Basel Too wrote:

instead, we have districts like mine, where over 50% of the operating budget is for administration and debt service...

Oh yeah. I'm sure Memphis (TN) City School system is similar which probably why the City side of the consolidation argument are running scared. I like how the leaving governor talked big and tough about the state taking over under-performing schools, but every time a Memphis city school was on the "To Be Taken Over" list, the state magically found reasons to give them 2 more years to improve things. Now that the Memphis school board has voted to tear up their charter and return the education folks to county jurisdiction, you've never seen so many grown folk show The Fear from what I'm hearing from folks there (h/t Bob D.)

yagij wrote:

I have some dominate Germanic traits that kill any chance of 'em letting me back on the Rez.

Blessing in disguise. One of the more depressing places I've visited was Cherokee, NC (hq for eastern band of Cherokees). Terrible circumstances for people so very significant in this area's history.

I thought that Bond Girl was contrasting IL and CA with Greece's ability to roll over debt, not pay it off. Here's her reference to an article in Bond Buyer:

"There was a great article in the Bond Buyer recently discussing rollover risk in the muni market (or the relative lack thereof), which compared leverage in the muni and sovereign debt markets:

The International Monetary Fund’s Global Stability Report … focused in large part on sovereign rollover risk. The risk of a country failing to find lenders has spiked.

This is essentially what happened to Greece in May. It planned to meet an $11.9 billion bond payment by selling more bonds. As concerns about its ability to meet this payment swelled, investors grew skittish about lending the country money.

Canada needs to raise a little more than 10% of its gross domestic product to repay maturing debts through the end of next year. Italy’s needs are closer to 20% of GDP, according to the IMF report.

Japan needs to raise a little more than half of its annual economic production to pay off maturing debts. In explaining why Japan was unlikely to “dysfunction,” the IMF cited a stable investor base – not dependable tax revenues or fiscal discipline.

Contrast that with the most fiscally troubled states. According to its annual report for fiscal 2009, California is facing about $2.9 billion in debt maturities this year and a similar amount next year – less than 0.4% of the state’s GDP. Illinois will have to repay about $1.5 billion in principal this year and next, or 0.3% of its GDP.

The totality of state and local governments’ interest paid and debt retired or refinanced in 2008 was 2.4% of US GDP.

Aside from its diminutive size, what is noteworthy about this figure is how stable it is over time. In 2007, state and local governments’ interest paid plus debts retired or refinanced in 2008 represented 2.3% of US GDP. This figure has stayed between 1.97% and 2.66% since 1995."

Maury the Credi... wrote:

One of the more depressing places I've visited was Cherokee, NC (hq for eastern band of Cherokees).

Yeah, it is more of a family sadness than a financial/social one. Some people were willing to leave the tribe and marry "abroad", and the offspring were persona non grata ever since that time.

The Vikings got chased out by the Skraelings.

The house I'm lined up to buy although I haven't fully commuted to yet,
was 289k last Summer and I have a tentative offer of 210k. This was a short
sale and the bank is losing around 70k on a three year old mortgage. I my
Still unwind the transaction depending on certain conditions. This is in
Flyover country . It's going to be a tough year for everyone.

RockyR wrote:

This place is just right of Huffpo, but not by much.

I love being a moderate. No one loves me until they need my vote to swing something their way and then I go back into the fat friend group until the need arises to acknowledge me once more.

only 70k. A relative pittance. On one I'm working on, but not for long, the bank is set to lose about 300k. Of a mtg on which 550k is owed. 20% down too.

It's mostly still in my sinuses but I bought cold meds with Guaifenesin when I went earlier. It's helping quite a bit.

I repeat. I am sooooo happy that Florida is only "close to" being a basket case.

Yeah, it's cold here, went for a walk--oh, my. But when the northeast digs out from it's blizzard there will be many who want to come where it is warm.

sporkfed wrote:

The house I'm lined up to buy although I haven't fully commuted to yet,
was 289k last Summer and I have a tentative offer of 210k. This was a short
sale and the bank is losing around 70k on a three year old mortgage. I my
Still unwind the transaction depending on certain conditions. This is in
Flyover country . It's going to be a tough year for everyone.

Sporkfed.....stop wearing a skirt and white cotton panties and tell the bank you want 150k

Rob Dawg wrote:

but en toto they are numerically overwhelmed by those further left

Anything right of the HuffPost or D-Kos is hard right.

After all the banks are too dumb to distinguish between a loss and a big a$$ loss.

Come on take it down another 10%. 189k. 100k off. It's symbolic.

nova wrote:

I was just in 7-11. The Commonwealth of VA is now charging a .50 tax on each phone card purchased. It always sucks to be poor.

I just noticed something the other day. Fast food stands in California charge sales tax on hot food. I read a sign in one of them (I think it was a Subway) that claimed the state required that sales tax be collected on hot food, but not cold food. So this means that the poor family that gets by on McDonalds food pays sales tax to eat, but people who cook at home do not.

I have heard people claim that eating at McDonalds is cheaper than cooking at home. I don't know if this is true, but the state seems to get a cut of hot meals. In the urban nutburgs, that would be a 10.25% meal tax.

sportsfan wrote:

True. Conservatives balance budgets and therefore do not require a 'no tax' pledge to join the party.

Conservatives have no problem with spending and debt. Investing for the future is a hallmark of conservatism. Sometimes that means using debt.

sm_landlord wrote:

I just noticed something the other day. Fast food stands in California charge sales tax on hot food.

I'm tempted to write, "You don't get out much, do you?"

But I won't.

It's been that way in CA for decades.

mp wrote:

Barry Goldwater, for example, was an old-school conservative. His votes in the Senate were almost invariably centrist votes, with the exception of his vote against the Civil Rights Act of 1964. At the time, I thought his vote was unfortunate, but he insisted on constitutional grounds. He was made out to be a racist, which was absolutely untrue.

Remember the "Daisy" attack ad?
YouTube - Democrat Daisy TV ad for 1964 Presidential Campaign

Goldwater was also made out to be Dr. Strangelove, which he was anything but.

The negotiating continues after the home inspection.

picosec wrote:

I'm tempted to write, "You don't get out much, do you?"

No, actually I don't.

It's been that way in CA for decades.

Yes, but only recently have I started thinking about sales tax policy, as the rates get more and more extreme.

Rajesh wrote:

Which is worse ... wrote:
2010s: Belgium
Who gets the debt?

When the voters partition at referendum, do they care?

geographyofarecession

One of Goldwater's problems--in California, anyway--was he got hooked up with the Birch organization. Someone tried to explain to me once exactly how and why that happened, but I don't recall the details. The Birchers were very powerful in California and the Rockefeller contingent within the party wouldn't support Goldwater, so I think that had a lot to do with it.

I later heard it reported, in a rather tangential way, that Goldwater thoroughly regretted having involved himself with them. I really don't think he realized what they'd become by 1964.

NOTaREALmerican wrote:

Goldwater's gonna blow-up the world!

LBJ is held in a rather low position in my view of modern presidents, and besides Guns & Butter and other policy issues that continue to haunt us to this day, the airing of the Daisy ad is a chief complaint I have for the man and his legacy.

Guaifenesin, excellent. This is to expel the drip from stomach and lungs. Drip is good -- sign of decongesting cavity. You do not want to "dry up" the mucus in the cavity.

To accelerate decongestion:
1. STEAM. And I mean, concentrated. Either sit in a (tight as you can make it) bathroom with shower running for twenty min 3x/d. OR inhale from warm water vaporizer (towel over head. BE CAREFUL TO KEEP MIN 18" from vent). Stick VICKS® in each nostril while you're at it. Perform as direct until you've got unobstructed breath, mouth closed. FWIW, my old man was a family doc and prescribed this to infants and adults before all others.
2. SALT WATER DROPS. 1/8 tsp per 100ml warm water ~85F. 2 - 3 drops per nostril, supine, as needed to induce VIOLENT SNEEZE. LIMIT 3x/d -- say, every 6 hours.
3. LIMIT DAIRY CONSUMPTION. Drink only clear fluids. NO NOG. (Toddies of TEA, LEMON, HONEY best for low-grade fever.) If you must have milk, get a quart of skim or 1% to add.

BONUS: echinacea tincture. It's pricey per oz but you only need 2-3 drops 2x/d in clear liquid (while healing) or other beverage to boost yer auto-immune. You'll get accustomed to the buzz on your tongue. Start tomorrow and continue throughout the so-called flu season. Send hubby west with his own bottle.

Best wishes.

sm_landlord wrote:

Yes, but only recently have I started thinking about sales tax policy, as the rates get more and more extreme.

VenCo has the lowest. Welcome. If you can call 8.25% low. Excepting Oxnard and Hueneme which have an extra 0.50%.

mp wrote:

One of Goldwater's problems--in California, anyway--was he got hooked up with the Birch organization.

Goldwater, the John Birch Society, and Me

The Guaf really helps quite a bit. I can breathe freely right now but there is still pressure up in my cheek so I know there is still congestion there. I know I'm not supposed to be doing the dairy thing but I was being bad.

barfly wrote:

taxes and fees in California make me think of the 'boiling frogs' analogy -

how much can you guys take?

Already reached the limit for me, at which I have adjusted my shopping behavior to minimize the impact of sales taxes. Think of it as the Laffer curve in action.

hot beer?! Holymarymutteragott.